A Civilization Thread for Civilised People

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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People

Post by Spilskinanka » Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:11 pm

I don't do wars unless I can afford them (which is usually pretty often)
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People

Post by Aren142 » Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:43 pm

I usually end up a warmonger at some point or another whether I want to or not. Because I capture cities and raze them on principle when people invade me and then it backfires on them. That and domination is my favourite win condition. >_>

Iroquois are proving to be a problem in my new 15 civ/20 city state/huge map game. They settled about 10 cities straight off the bat and cockblocked me from a massive Iron filled desert, which they're not using but I can't get to it without war. I did try being friendly to get open borders. But then they started spying on me and got bread and buttered off when I destroyed an Assyrian city after they invaded me without a military and I had 2 siege units just chilling in garrison.

Also, gooseberry fool Washington's trade logic. He will trade my luxury resources that he wants for his strategic resources that I already have in buckets of. He will open his borders if I open mine and give him gold. He will sign a research agreement if I do the same plus give him money.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People

Post by TamzehVB » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:52 am

Iroquois do seem to have a nasty habit of claiming tiles you want. However, they're also pretty easy to deal with when it comes to diplomacy. I've always managed to stay close allies of them during my games.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People

Post by Aren142 » Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:20 pm

Also, please tell me that I'm not the only one with an obsession for making sure my Empire stays within one border. I can settle on islands or other continents but all my cities on the same landmass must have connecting borders and roads. (After allowing a bit of city growth, of course.)
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People

Post by Spilskinanka » Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:18 pm

I like to do so but I hate useless cities that don't provide anything other than land, so if it's a better option to settle 20 tiles away for the truffles or whatever's there, then I'll do it.

My current game has three cities joined up in a line, one on a nearby peninsula and then four other cities on islands. I also have a fifth city that is on a peninsula on Brazil's continent that has dyes, making a massive land-grab that made them plot against me.

I think they saw the ships of the line at 1200AD and got scared though
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People

Post by Aren142 » Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:47 pm

Well, things got pretty close for a moment there. My massive Empire was almost forced to succumb to the will of the Spanish. They managed to get enough delegates to win the World Leader vote in 2017. Fortunately, I noticed half way through the invasion which I'd started because there was Uranium near Madrid. I could have just flattened a couple of City States to lower her delegation. Instead, I went all in and managed to just wipe out the whole of Spain on the turn of the vote.

Currently on 21 cities, including 4 other people's original capitals, plus a couple that I'm razing for being terrible and Spanish. Got 3 spaceship parts and over 100% cultural influence over half the remaining civs. (It really is amusing when the Zulus complain about buying my blue jeans. I would hope they are wearing trousers by the 21st century.) Now to race myself to see which kind of victory I get first. My money's on science.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by OrangeRakoon » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:28 pm

Sid Meier's Starships is out tomorrow for the grand price of a tenner!

What's that got to do with Civ, you ask?
Take command of a fleet of powerful starships in this adventure-driven strategy game from legendary designer Sid Meier. Travel to new worlds, completing missions to help save and protect the planets and their people from dangerous Space Pirates, to powerful Marauders and other hostile factions. Build a planetary federation as you strengthen your fleet and secure your homeworld as you attempt to preserve intergalactic peace and your vision of humanity. Set in the universe of Civilization: Beyond Earth after the age of the Seeding, Sid Meier’s Starships offers sci-fi/strategy fans a full stand-alone game experience that also features cross-connectivity with Beyond Earth, expanding the depth of both games. See if you have what it takes to rule the universe!

Features

• Tactical space combat: Encounter unique tactical challenges in every mission, with dynamically generated maps, victory conditions, and foes.
• Fully customizable starships: Create an armada that fits your tactical plan with modular spaceship design.
• Diplomacy, strategy, and Exploration: Expand the influence of your Federation and gain the trust of the citizens of new planets. Use the unique abilities of the each planet to enhance your fleet and Federation, and keep your opponents in check. Build improvements on worlds to increase the capabilities and resources of your Federation.
• A galaxy of adventure: Explore the galaxy as you lead your fleet to distant worlds and complete missions to help the citizens of these planets. Fight pirates, protect colony ships, destroy rogue AI, and more.
• Multiple paths to victory: Will you win by conquering the greatest threat to the galaxy? Or will you unite a plurality of worlds in your Federation? Perhaps you will lead your people to push the frontiers of science. Each choice you make carries consequences on your path to victory
Wikipedia wrote:The game is a stand-alone title but shares the same universe as Civilization: Beyond Earth, putting the player in control of a fleet of space-faring craft. The player will use the fleet to explore the galaxy, meeting other human and alien forces, and dealing with problems through a combination of military, diplomatic, and other strategic options. Spacecraft in the fleet can be highly customized for meeting certain goals. The game will feature cross-connectivity features with Beyond Earth for those that own both titles.

Starships was based on Sid Meier's idea of extending the Beyond Earth setting, in which the player guides the development of one of several human colonies on an alien world, and he considers it a further narrative of that game, exploring the universe and encountering other human colonies and threats it may hold. In his concept, Meier wanted to focus on starship creation, including highly configurable ships, and space combat, while providing the player with "a universe filled with interstellar adventure, diplomacy, and exploration". The game was developed by Meier and a small team at Firaxis, and will be released on March 12
You can also buy it in a pack along with Beyond Earth if you happen to be interested. But yes, I will report back with my first impressions tomorrow!

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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by OrangeRakoon » Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:35 am

So I've been playing Starships tonight. It's pretty cool - the same universe as Beyond Earth is very nice, with how you pick an affinity at the start and one of the BE leaders, and I like how buildings/wonders are the same too (but obviously with different mechanics). The game itself isn't that complex, but it's enough to be fun, and who can say no to a bit of space conquering?

It actually reminds me quite a bit of a more fleshed out version of the Galactic Conquest mode in Star Wars Battlefront II, but obviously with tactical turn-based battles rather than battlefront battles. Which in my opinion is no bad thing.

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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by Aren142 » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:43 am

If it's only a tenner then I might as well pick it up once I dig out my steam voucher from Christmas. I started playing BE for the first time at the weekend and was enjoying it despite Aliens being Barbarians but 50 times worse. I do love a bit of world domination hence my enjoyment of the series so ruling multiple worlds? Count me in.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by Spilskinanka » Fri May 15, 2015 9:12 pm

Gonna revive this with a question: does anyone have a civ they absolutely despise for one reason or another (flashbacks to a past game etc)

For me it's the Iroquois; they always seem to play extremely wide yet have the best in everything. One game in particular stands out and that was when they dominated my continent, and when we weren't at war it was only a few turns until the next one. At one point I'm pretty sure I was fighting XCOM Squads with standard infantry. That game was a fun lesson in survival.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by TamzehVB » Fri May 15, 2015 9:19 pm

I'd probably have to say Carthage, for the one game I played as the Celts. I was right in the middle of Dido's empire for the entire game, and twice she declared war on me (trying to take my cities for her own nation), and when she wanted peace, she still had the audacity to ask for those same cities as tribute. I eventually managed to cow her into submission after the second war, but I still remained wary of her.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by Spilskinanka » Sat May 16, 2015 9:14 am

I think Ethiopia might have that title now

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One of those citadels was mine; the other two he put there. We've been at war since about turn 140 or so? Peaceful civ my ass, he rolled all over my ally Brazil and took Rio; now he's taking his other cities too. I swear war will not end until I liberate Rio, though it's proving difficult. Brazil built the Great Wall and then lost his capital, and add to that Ethiopia's ludicrous defensive buffs and friendly lands eton mess it's proving quite a tough war. Still, Riga is mine now (after about 30 turns of siege) and I finally have a base on the continent from which to dispense FREEDOM from.

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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by Spilskinanka » Sun May 17, 2015 3:34 pm

Ethiopia took Sao Paolo as well, but it's OK now Brazil is free

Just doing my American duty
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by OrangeRakoon » Mon May 18, 2015 8:21 am

What difficulty are you on?

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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by Spilskinanka » Mon May 18, 2015 10:33 am

7

I lost a bunch of units trying to land to the west of Rio initially, the Ethiopian UU really dicked me over
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by OrangeRakoon » Mon May 18, 2015 10:17 pm

Rock Paper Shotgun wrote:RPS: What’s this doing in a nutshell, then?

Will: Rising Tide is what we like to call a Firaxis-style expansion, which means in addition to putting a lot of content into the game and balancing and polishing we also put new systems into the game which fundamentally change how it plays. If you’ve had Beyond Earth for a while and are interested in the expansion, this is going to be a brand new experience for you, from a gameplay perspective as well as a content perspective.

There are several features that we are very excited about. First, as the name suggests, is the addition of water-based gameplay, the ability to land cities on the water, and the new units and the aliens and the resources that come along with that. We’ve also completely replaced the diplomacy system from the original game with something new, which I think probably changes the game the most. I think that’s the most fundamental difference under the hood.

We’ve added four new factions, including the Al Falah, the Arabic leader. And we’ve also introduced the concept of hybrid affinities.

RPS: How much of a foregone conclusion was an expansion pack for Beyond Earth? A lot of reviews – including ours, I think – predicted that expansions would make it so much better, but how reasonable an assumption was that?

Will: We have a long-term product plan at Firaxis. I can’t comment on exactly what that looks like, but when we set out to make Beyond Earth the idea was to make a franchise. You’re seeing us committed to that franchise, committed to that idea with this expansion, And with the patches to the base game that we released afterwards. I think it is sort of a foregone conclusion for us. This kind of echoes what happened with Civ V. We released it, it had some problems, then we patched it, we released two expansions that really brought that game up to what people know and love today. We’re in the process of doing that with Beyond Earth. I think we released a very strong initial product, and we patched it based on user feedback. This expansion is a combination of David and my vision for the game, and the addition of what people wanted from the community. We built this game for our players, and we’re always watching how people are playing and trying to react to that, and drive the franchise in a new and differentiated direction from Civ.

Nothing is ever certain in this business, but when we set out to make Beyond Earth we certainly hoped that it will have a long life. One of the biggest, most rewarding pieces of feedback that we got from our community was that there was a hunger for this game, for the idea that this game represents. We’re delivering on that.

Image

RPS: Is there a conscious attempt to be less conservative now?

David: Absolutely. Beyond Earth went as far as we thought that we could go. We actually talked about this at GDC, on this exact subject. We did a lot of things that we’re really proud of and we think that the game is very successful one, but when it came out we were both pleased and surprised to see fans react by saying ‘I wish you’d gone further, I wish there was more differentiation, more wildness.’ We were like ‘oh, we’d love to.’ So in the expansion we’ve definitely taken a few stands that are way different from anything that a Civ game has attempted before, beyond what we felt we wanted to do with the base game. We’re really excited by how much it changes how the game plays. Water gameplay alone – there’s never been a Civ game where the whole surface of the map is playable, there’s nowhere to escape. The idea of totally rebalancing the game around cities that are on water as well as on land is more than just ‘oh, you have blue terrain now.’ It’s an entirely different strategic landscape. Every game, every decision you make is new, even the old ones. There’s a lot in this game that really pushes the envelope of what BE can be and Civ can be.

RPS: Is the water building something you can do from the off, or do you have to actively pursue it in the Tech web?

David: You have a modest tech requirement, similar to Pioneering in Beyond Earth, which you had to research before you could build a Colonist. It’s very achievable really quickly if you go for it. And two of the new factions – unfortunately neither of them we’re revealing yet – will have special advantages to playing on the water. There’s a real effort to make water gameplay part of your game from the very beginning. Even if you intended to play an entirely land-based Civ, you’re still going to have understand how the water works, how to play against aquatic competitors, use the new power that water gameplay provides… It’s a big deal.

Image

RPS: Is it all on the surface of the water?

Will: It is one surface. We wanted to keep the gameplay on the map, we didn’t want to make another layer that you had to drop into to see what was going on. The information is there. Our artists have done a really amazing job with the presentation of this and I cannot wait for you to get screenshots to see just how good this looks. We’ve rewritten our water rendering and our water shader to let you see through the surface, we’ve revamped how our terrain generation works and how our map generation works, to generate the terrain underneath. We have a full range of new aquatic resources for both shallow and deep water, and new expedition sites, and new things to find out there, along with a host of new aliens to contend with. So it’s an entirely new space for you to play, and as David alluded to, it’s not just blue terrain. There are some mechanical differences between terrestrial cities and water cities, terrestrial combat and water combat, and how growth works. We’ve really differentiated them without, I think, increasing the complexity too much.

RPS: If you’re an experienced BE player starting your first Rising Tide campaign, what’s the first thing you’ll hit that’ll feel significantly different?

David: Really the second you land you’ll be able to see the new water. You can see the surface and the sea floor, all the new creatures and new resources. Even if you play on a map that’s predominantly land it’ll look different. A couple of the factions will start with major advantages on the water, so if you pick one of those your game is utterly different from the get-go. But it’s impossible to ignore – everything from the units you can to build to the technologies that you first encounter and what they unlock, how you get Affinity, how you’re interacting with the other leaders. The new Diplomacy system… From the very beginning the changes are in front of you.

Will: We’ve also introduced two new biomes. We can’t really say what those are yet, but even the environment that you play in can be potentially be different. From turn 1 it’s going to be a pretty different game.

Image

RPS: How has the Diplomacy system changed, then?

David: We can’t tell you too many details, but I can speak to it from a philosophical level. One of the takeaways from the base game is that the diplomacy system from Civ V, which we just brought over wholesale, didn’t really work, because it relied on these characters from history. Players understood intuitively how Montezuma might behave or how Ghandi might behave. You could make strategic decisions based on prior knowledge of those characters. Because we have invented characters we wanted to provide more transparency in terms of how they behave and why they do the things they do. We wanted to make a game out of that. We also wanted the player to do more meaningful things through diplomacy. In Civ V and in Beyond Earth the outputs of diplomacy are trade and you can declare war or peace. There’s actually very little that you do in diplomacy; they’re important things, but there’s not a lot of high frequency interaction that you have. You didn’t have a lot of opportunity to interact with the leaders that we put in, their personalities didn’t really get an opportunity to shine. We wanted to build a game around this idea of diplomacy, that would allow our characters to take centre stage and give the player the chance to introspect into their personalities and to give them more things to do, more benefits to be gained.

So just as an example, if I’m playing a military game but I need help researching new technologies, I can solve that problem now through the diplomacy system. I can make an agreement with another leader and in exchange for other things can now have mututal benefits, but it’s a strategic choice because they get something from me too. So I have to be very careful about who’s getting what.

We’ve also built in some new vectors about how leaders communicate with you. The system as a whole is broader, I would say. There’s a lot more meat to it, there’s a game to it, there’s a progression to it, and it’s more transparent.

RPS: It kind of felt in Beyond Earth like you had the option to steamroller everyone or you had to perpetually have something prepared in case someone suddenly lashed out at you; now will you have more sense of why that might happen, and how much does that enable a more nuanced and reactive approach?

Will: Yes, that’s exactly right. The reason the AI behaves the way it does is very complicated. I think one of the problems with Beyond Earth is that the perception of motivations for the leaders was not apparent. They would do things that didn’t make any sense in the context of what was happening on the map. This system is there to give you a window into what they’re thinking, and to make a game out of that. One of the inspirations for that, and this may give you a little bit of a telegraph into what this looks like, is a boardgame called Tales of the Arabian Nights.Your personality as a player is this collection of cards that you get from the experiences that you have in the game. It’s not exactly like that, but we loved this idea of the player having a personality that evolves, and that personality be the driving thing behind the interaction you have with them, and to put that in front in the player and let them strategise around it.

Image

RPS: Do you mean that the player’s behaviour will change over the course of the game because they feel they’ve built up relationships with the other factions?

Will: I’d say that that’s true. I’d also say that you can use the diplomacy layer to make up for deficits. So if I need something I can get it through research, I can get it through exploration, and now I can get it through diplomacy. We’ve taken a lot of these benefits and spread them all out across the game, making the diplomacy important to other parts of the game, rather than just the war and peace thing. And adding this idea of progression, so the leaders that start off the game have a personality that changes over the course of the game to something different at the end, based on what’s happening, based on your interactions with them, based on the map, based on a lot of factors. You can see that as a player, and you can plan around it.

RPS: Traditionally, or at least as armchair critics like me have it, Civ expansions target weaknesses in the mid game or the late game. It sounds like this one is meant to be more game-wide?

David: That’s definitely true. Our game has got a different pace to it, a different arc than a traditional Civ. It tends to ramp higher and faster. In the base game we spent a lot of our effort making it play and feel different from Civ in very key ways – things like the Tech Web and the Affinity system. What we’re doing in the expansion is simultaneously deepening those systems and adding more content and more variety, more opportunity for player personalisation and for them to control the way the game goes. But also things like the diplomacy and the water system are relevant no matter how big or how small your game is, or how early or how later. There are things that are going to change every decision that you make, in big and little ways. There are also things that scale with the player’s interests. You can invest in the diplomacy to whatever extent that you feel you need to. It’ll be rewarding whether it’s a 1v1 game or a 1v10. Likewise, the water gameplay, even if you play on a map that’s one little ocean or one that’s entirely water, it’s still a big deal, one that changes the strategic landscape. I think it’s accurate to say the changes that we’re after in this game are consistent throughout all the phases of it, they’re meant to turn up the stakes on every part.

Image

RPS: Has your approach to science fiction changed? Despite having human-alien hybrids, it was kind of buttoned down in the base game. How much is the wildness restrained by a theoretical science mindset?

David:
I think we do both, actually. I think there are a lot of new additions which are very much plausible science, real world-inspired things. There are a lot of ideas in the dipomacy which are based on real, modern politics, there’s a lot of aspects of the new factions that are drawn from the same real-world sources that the existing ones are. The new units, like we’ve introduced the submarine, which is a unit that everyone already understands, but the Hybrid Affinity unique units are much wilder, they’re more bizarre than the Purity ones were. The naval alien catalogue has been expanded, so that feels even more alien, more of a strange environment, than it used to be. And then little things like the new biomes and adjustments to the victory conditions… In many, many small ways we are nudging the game further into true sci-fi. We’re letting it progress there. There’s a number of pieces of new content or new features which are much more strange, much more space than BE had.

RPS: Internally, how much sense is there that you have to redeem Beyond Earth?

Will:
Every product is iterative with us. I think our audience, and rightfully so, has a pretty short memory. When Civ V came out it was pretty rough and it took two expansions to get that game to the place that people have in their heads. The game that people have in their heads is the result of lots of patches, lots of iteration and two expansions. Beyond Earth is no different. When you make a complex strategy game or you iterate on a franchise like Civ you have to watch how people play, you have to see what people do with the game, and you have to respond. We’ve done that with the patches that we’ve released and the Rising Tide expansion is an indication of our committment to this as a franchise. We’re growing this idea and improving and expanding upon it. We’re not a studio that releases one-and-done products. We’re always watching and always improving.

RPS: Thanks for your time.

Rising Tide is due for release this fall/Autumn and will cost £19.99.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Starships!

Post by Spilskinanka » Wed May 20, 2015 3:41 pm

This is a thread for CIVILISED people not filthy punmakers OR
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Rising Tide

Post by ABoxerWhoIsPacifist » Fri May 29, 2015 1:44 pm

All that talk of Civ on HDYFRN makes me want to play Civ again. Probably do China Dom as that was my most fun save ever.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Rising Tide

Post by JayMoyles » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:21 pm

In regards to that Beyond Earth post above, I've purposely held off from buying Beyond Earth because I knew DLCs were coming. I couldn't bring myself to buy a far inferior experience when I can hold off and get more game for a likely cheaper price.

Question, what's everyone's Civ 5 playtime at?
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Rising Tide

Post by OrangeRakoon » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:30 pm

DLCs with improvements is always the way with Civ, but I'm always happy enough to play the vanilla first too. That said, this DLC should bring me back to BE!

According to Steam my Civ 5 playtime is 174 hours, but I know that is super conservative as I have played an awful lot of it in offline mode.

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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Rising Tide

Post by JayMoyles » Sun Jun 21, 2015 8:32 pm

I think I was discouraged from playing the vanilla based on the fact I'd heard the vanilla for base Civ 5 was a bit limited - plus, I'd bought Civ 5 plus all its expansions for £10, so I was a little hesistant to spend so much on BE.

I'm sitting on 177 hours myself, most of which is multiplayer.
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Rising Tide

Post by Spilskinanka » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:25 pm

324 hours lol
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Rising Tide

Post by TamzehVB » Sun Jun 21, 2015 9:33 pm

Only 59 hours for me. I feel inadequate.
Still looking to get into Pathfinder RPG
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ABoxerWhoIsPacifist
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Rising Tide

Post by ABoxerWhoIsPacifist » Wed Jun 24, 2015 9:55 am

476

I need a life
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Re: A Civilization Thread for Civilised People | Rising Tide

Post by Sabrofra » Wed Jun 24, 2015 1:38 pm

57 hours.

I haven't had a proper game of Civ since summer last year. I fancy playing it again.

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