Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Anything and everything in the world of gaming, from PC and consoles to handhelds and mobile.
User avatar
danbish
Posts: 1203
Joined: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:10 pm
NNID: TheFatPlumber
3DS Friend Code: 0920-1615-5762
Xbox Gamertag: Emerald Eagle
Steam ID: TheFatPlumber

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by danbish » Mon Jun 15, 2015 4:32 pm

Escort missions and constant help messages when you don't want them - Fi for example.

Then there's unskippable cut-scenes (from when you've died right after one that the developers think must be played again for the umpteenth time), unpausable cut-scenes because y'know, things happen - a knock on the door, phone rings, people (and any touch to the controller results in the thing skipping entirely.

Restarting/reloading after a failure; is it too much trouble when we hit 'restart' you just restart the thing rather than reload the entire gooseberry fool level????

Blatantly cheating AI - I love MK8 I really do but come on, the amount of times you're hit by a 'random' green shell just isn't funny. And it doesn't matter if you're able to somehow manage to avoid it, it'll still hit you round the next corner by ricocheting off something.
Image
Image

User avatar
Scapegoat
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:29 pm
PSN ID: UploadedNetwork

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Scapegoat » Mon Jun 15, 2015 6:58 pm

I have another one, no post game or new game +, for example, beating the final boss and then continuing from your last save point as if it never happened. I'm looking at you A Link Between Worlds.
Image

User avatar
Met
Posts: 4115
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:59 pm
NNID: Metballs
3DS Friend Code: 031879326955
PSN ID: MetONM
Xbox Gamertag: Metballs
Steam ID: metonm

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Met » Mon Jun 15, 2015 10:39 pm

JenovaPX wrote:Yeah but walking across a bridge seems to be a gooseberry fool platforming challenge for you
Not my fault your boring ass makes me want to backflip around nonstop....
Image
<Kaee> I think Met would give better sex than Hoyle
cruizer wrote:I didn't start writing this with the intention of speaking about veganism; but the link between animal explotiation and oppressed human groups is so obvious

User avatar
Zanreo
Posts: 98
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2015 5:21 pm

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Zanreo » Tue Jun 16, 2015 5:49 am

Oh, just remembered another thing:

-When "pausing" a game (pressing Start) makes the level reset/automatically fail. Might not be very common, but seen this in a few rhythm games, and it's really annoying...
Last edited by Zanreo on Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image My webcomic, check it out
Image

User avatar
weakboson
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:48 am

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by weakboson » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:09 pm

Games which don't allow you to fail. A lot of games give such huge leeway and unneccessary hand holding that it makes completing any task feel like chore that just has to be done, rather than a challenge to be overcome. For me it kills so much of the drama and adventure when you know that, however much the events of the game try to convince you that the protaginist is in danger or that there is something great or tumultuous happening, you know without a shadow of a doubt that there will be some banal solution to the problem staring you in your stupid face.

A game doesn't have to be particularly difficult to avoid this, it's just a matter of saying "yes, if you don't do this right you won't get the reward". It's a fine line to get it perfectly right, but so many developers seem to so frightened of scaring off players that they just trivialize evrything.

User avatar
Met
Posts: 4115
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:59 pm
NNID: Metballs
3DS Friend Code: 031879326955
PSN ID: MetONM
Xbox Gamertag: Metballs
Steam ID: metonm

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Met » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:49 pm

"Game Overs are a failure of the game designer."
- A wise man
Image
<Kaee> I think Met would give better sex than Hoyle
cruizer wrote:I didn't start writing this with the intention of speaking about veganism; but the link between animal explotiation and oppressed human groups is so obvious

User avatar
Scapegoat
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:29 pm
PSN ID: UploadedNetwork

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Scapegoat » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:00 pm

weakboson wrote:Games which don't allow you to fail. A lot of games give such huge leeway and unneccessary hand holding that it makes completing any task feel like chore that just has to be done, rather than a challenge to be overcome. For me it kills so much of the drama and adventure when you know that, however much the events of the game try to convince you that the protaginist is in danger or that there is something great or tumultuous happening, you know without a shadow of a doubt that there will be some banal solution to the problem staring you in your stupid face.

A game doesn't have to be particularly difficult to avoid this, it's just a matter of saying "yes, if you don't do this right you won't get the reward". It's a fine line to get it perfectly right, but so many developers seem to so frightened of scaring off players that they just trivialize evrything.
This is why risky mode in Persona 4 is the only true way to play.
Image

User avatar
JenovaPX
Posts: 6415
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:58 pm
PSN ID: JenovaPX
Steam ID: Jenova1039

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by JenovaPX » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:09 pm

Met wrote:"Game Overs are a failure of the game designer."
- A wise man
On that note, "choices" in games that don't matter. Recently saw some bits of JP the Game from Telltale and it's a big victim of that, ME3 is also a big one but Cage's stuff is definitely a big offender.
Welcome to the True Man's World
Destiny is Destiny.

User avatar
Scapegoat
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:29 pm
PSN ID: UploadedNetwork

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Scapegoat » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:17 pm

JenovaPX wrote:
Met wrote:"Game Overs are a failure of the game designer."
- A wise man
On that note, "choices" in games that don't matter. Recently saw some bits of JP the Game from Telltale and it's a big victim of that, ME3 is also a big one but Cage's stuff is definitely a big offender.
That is one of the reasons I like Life is Strange. Sure, it's written like a tween's tumblr page, but the fact that your choices affect things is really appealing. The ending to chapter 3 was the only forced choice, and I can definitely see why they'd force that on you. Can't wait for episode 4 to come out.
Image

User avatar
Garf
Posts: 5506
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:42 pm
NNID: Garfsona
PSN ID: GarfGuy
Steam ID: garfield069

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Garf » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:19 pm

JenovaPX wrote:
Met wrote:"Game Overs are a failure of the game designer."
- A wise man
On that note, "choices" in games that don't matter. Recently saw some bits of JP the Game from Telltale and it's a big victim of that, ME3 is also a big one but Cage's stuff is definitely a big offender.
The worst part is that Heavy Rain followed that philosophy pretty well, if you gooseberry fool up bad enough, you didn't get a game over and the game continued with your consequences. How he managed to eton mess up the one good part of his prior game in Beyond is beyond me

User avatar
weakboson
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:48 am

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by weakboson » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:17 am

Scapegoat wrote:This is why risky mode in Persona 4 is the only true way to play.
This may be true. I played it on some sort of normal setting and found it to be a grindy mess of tedium tempered only by the thrill of breeding new pokemon abominations in the velvet room. Also that aria of the soul. But I definitely felt that reading the plot on wikipedia was a more enjoyable way to experience the story. Maybe that scene just aint for me?

User avatar
Scapegoat
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:29 pm
PSN ID: UploadedNetwork

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Scapegoat » Thu Jun 18, 2015 1:39 pm

weakboson wrote:
Scapegoat wrote:This is why risky mode in Persona 4 is the only true way to play.
This may be true. I played it on some sort of normal setting and found it to be a grindy mess of tedium tempered only by the thrill of breeding new pokemon abominations in the velvet room. Also that aria of the soul. But I definitely felt that reading the plot on wikipedia was a more enjoyable way to experience the story. Maybe that scene just aint for me?
Persona 4 is a really easy game. Even if you die, you can just jump right back to the floor you were on. In Risky mode, if you die, your save is deleted. Now that provides me with a thrill and makes each decision count. The story is fantastic, but I much preferred watching it through the anime rather than playing through it. For me, making my first playthrough Normal difficulty was a bad idea. Far too easy. Currently half way through a Risky playthrough.

I love excruciatingly unforgiving games. Make one mistake and you get gooseberry fool. That's one of the main reasons I like Souls games, and stuff like MMO's where if you die you lose all your gear and all your levels. A great MMO of this nature is Realm of the Mad God. It's kinda gone to eton mess lately due to the pay to win nature of Kabam, but back when it first came out it was really fun and the stakes were always high - one false move and a few weeks of your progress gets wiped out.
Image

User avatar
weakboson
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 12:48 am

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by weakboson » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:07 pm

I'm glad there's someone else out there who recognises how difficulty in and of itself can make a game more fun. Sounds like you need shmups in your life. It's a precarious relationship, though. I can see how some of Persona 4's complexities might find more relvance in a high stakes mode. From what I've seen of the game I'm not convinced it would a big enough improvement for me - and it could just as likely have made it much worse. One thing I'm certain of is that had risky been default I would have probably decided a lot sooner whether I liked the game. I guess this is why devs don't do that! But that's one of the reasons I like to see it, just a little - shows they have confidence in their craftmanship.

Chocolate-Milk
Posts: 3484
Joined: Sat Oct 11, 2014 7:27 pm
NNID: mcdain123
3DS Friend Code: 2148-9345-8376
PSN ID: mcdain123
Steam ID: mcdain123

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Chocolate-Milk » Mon Jun 22, 2015 11:20 pm

Scapegoat wrote:Persona 4 is a really easy game. Even if you die, you can just jump right back to the floor you were on. In Riskyp mode, if you die, your save is deleted. Now that provides me with a thrill and makes each decision count. The story is fantastic, but I much preferred watching it through the anime rather than playing through it. For me, making my first playthrough Normal difficulty was a bad idea. Far too easy. Currently half way through a Risky playthrough.
How much leeway is there on the save deletion thing? Like can you switch off before it goes to the Game Over screen, or is it right there and then as the killing blow hits?

I can't even imagine how badly I'd fail at Risky. With no compendium to carry over, how do you not get gooseberry fool by Hama and Mudo?
das a peepo

User avatar
masa
Posts: 763
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:20 pm
NNID: nonoriri.k
3DS Friend Code: 1908-1215-2187
PSN ID: Cervanres
Xbox Gamertag: nonoriri k
Steam ID: masakisu

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by masa » Tue Jun 23, 2015 2:57 pm

Whilst i enjoy difficult games i am beginning to appreciate games that whilst not *easy* are more forgiving (im enjoying super luigi u at the moment actualy) as i dont have as much time to play games as i used to. Sometimes its nice to just relax and have fun without the tension and adrenaline of losing all your progress from one cock up.

Hype for wooly world general

User avatar
Balladeer
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 4:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Balladeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:25 pm

Controversial one, perhaps: games where I have to replay the game in order to see all the main parts of the story/dialogue, or play all main parts of the game. I don't mind the odd side-quest where a choice is required (the love letter side-quest in LoZTP is an example), but I don't want to replay 90% of the same game to see a handful of extra cut-scenes, or get The Ultimate Bead of Arbitrarily Restricted Power or summat. Let me be able to play the game once and get the full experience.

StarFox Command is an abomination.
Member of the affiliated GNamer forum!

User avatar
JenovaPX
Posts: 6415
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2014 5:58 pm
PSN ID: JenovaPX
Steam ID: Jenova1039

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by JenovaPX » Tue Jun 23, 2015 4:40 pm

Eh, I'd definitely argue in favour of that being a good thing. Many games are designed now where you can only see so much on your first run through with multiple endings or even branching storylines and that's great, it comes back to what I mentioned earlier by having choices that matter (think getting the good end vs the bad end but that being decided early on) and the associated parts of the games that you see for it. I mean SMT, Silent Hill, the Souls series, even dreck like Shadow the Hedgehog pull this off. (Just kidding, Shadow the Hedgehog is a masterpiece)

There are plenty of games where content is locked behind NG+ things like needing abilities you can't get the first time round but have access to in NG+ so you can see new things. It's not that you're not getting a full experience the first time round, you absolutely are, but there's just so much more depth to replaying the game over and searching areas thoroughly. That's why I love games with branching stories and hidden areas, etc.
Welcome to the True Man's World
Destiny is Destiny.

User avatar
Balladeer
Posts: 110
Joined: Fri May 15, 2015 4:45 pm
Contact:

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Balladeer » Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:04 pm

Yeah, NG+ is another thing I don't like. If I come back to a game, unless you're going to e.g. give me free flight around the world, I'm going to be repeating so much nonsense I've already done that the rewards had better be worth it. I'd rather replay a game because I want to experience everything again, a while afterwards and afresh, for its own sake! Not for relatively pointless trinkets.

But if you're not getting the branching stories the first time around, then you absolutely have missed out on some of the experience! You've missed out on those story paths. I agree that stories with choices that don't matter can get stuffed, which is why I prefer games with a single strong story. Don't give me choices at all, or give me one (e.g. Hoshido/Nohr) that's completely game-changing, that essentially results in two games.
Member of the affiliated GNamer forum!

User avatar
Scapegoat
Posts: 3144
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 3:29 pm
PSN ID: UploadedNetwork

Re: Game design choices/mechanics you can't stand?

Post by Scapegoat » Tue Jun 23, 2015 9:22 pm

I love New Game + and it really adds a lot to the game in my opinion. I love going through 100+ hour RPGs again with a few things carried over.

Then again, most of the games I play are all 100+ hour games, I really don't care much for games that will only last me a few hours. If A Link Between Worlds had had a New Game + feature, then it would have been greatly improved in my opinion. I suppose at least completing the game did unlock Hero mode, so there's that I guess.
Image

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests