Super Smash Bros general discussion

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Troggy
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Troggy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 4:45 pm

Vtheyoshi wrote:goku for smash
get outta here with your pleb-tier anime heroes

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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by H.Kazuhira » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:07 pm

If we end up just getting Ice climbers and Wolf I'm gonna be disappointed. Unless Wolf is properly tweaked or even revamped I'll be hyped for him.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Troggy » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:12 pm

I'd be hyped for Ice Climbers, myself. They were my jam in the days of Brawl, so I'd love to have them back. Hell, if they change it to just one of the Ice Climbers with increased knockback and recovery I'd be into it.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:14 pm

I guess it wouldn't be unlikely to get an Inkling from Nintendo's premier esport Splatoon.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by H.Kazuhira » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:21 pm

I was thinking they could play to the namesake of the Switch and add a completely new mode. Something I've always wanted since Brawl. A Tag Mode, similar in vein of other fighters. Sounds crazy with Smash I know but I think It could work. It would further bring out potential of other fighters too.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Sun Oct 23, 2016 5:45 pm

Ganon's potential would finally be unlocked with the option to tag with Diddy Kong.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Vtheyoshi » Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:29 pm

what if we got melee fox
or melee hd
or melee


or goku
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Troggy » Fri Oct 28, 2016 3:49 pm

I'm going to be on Smash Wii U in a bit to practice Dedede and Duck Hunt.

Anybody who wants to join me, I'll be in the chat.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:25 pm

Troggy wrote:I'm going to be on Smash Wii U in a bit to practice Dedede and Duck Hunt.

or goku
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Vtheyoshi » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:53 pm

Troggy wrote:I'm going to be on Smash Wii U in a bit to practice Dedede and Duck Hunt.

Anybody who wants to join me, I'll be in the chat.
maybe next time you should practice your goku
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Fri Oct 28, 2016 6:03 pm

Those were some fun 2 v 1s. Same time tomorrow yeah
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:20 pm

Would anyone I've played with recently like some tips and advice? I may be retired, but I have some useful information that I can share. Ask away. If you want.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by H.Kazuhira » Sun Oct 30, 2016 6:48 pm

How to control ourselves from going autopilot? Also momentum is my biggest weakness. I have a free form play style which constantly changes and only hurts me later on when I lose traction from a loss or make a mistake while in the lead. Considering I main a very complicated character how would you suggest I handle that?

Unrelated but I think I'm enjoying playing Sheik again. What's happening to me >,> I guess on the plus side it would be nice to have a High Tier Counter Pick up my sleeve.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:30 pm

H.Kazuhira wrote:How to control ourselves from going autopilot? Also momentum is my biggest weakness. I have a free form play style which constantly changes and only hurts me later on when I lose traction from a loss or make a mistake while in the lead. Considering I main a very complicated character how would you suggest I handle that?
Auto-piloting has been costly for me at times, contributing to losses against players that are quite a bit worse than me or ones who are definitely beatable. If you're playing to win, it's important to respect your opponent whatever their skill level. This means focusing on the match and constantly thinking about what adjustments you might need to make, as opposed to relying on some formulaic strategy which you've found works on a lot of players.

And even when you've established a strong lead, as Ice has said you should tell yourself "This is only the beginning." Your goal has to be to absolutely destroy your opponent*, or otherwise risk giving them an opportunity to come back. Aim to not even get hit or lose a stock. Though you may need to adopt a more safe/keep-away style at the beginning of the match or the set against someone who haven't played with before or for a while - so you can observe habits and stuff you think you might be able to take advantage of. Try not to just go in recklessly, of course - you're aiming for complete destruction but at times it may have to be slow and calculated.

*Keep the advantageous of keeping your opponent constantly on the back-foot in mind - if you're constantly beating your opponent in neutral you're getting information about their teching and defensive/escape habits, where they know comparatively little about yours since you're not getting put into those situations. This should motivate you to never let up.

Perhaps you might be auto-piloting against players you perceive to be better than you, as a way to deal with the pressure. If you're not really trying, losing feels better. But you gotta put pride out of the way if you fall into this mindset. If you're not trying you're probably not going to be beat anyone better than you or improve from the experience if you lose. Again, if you establish a lead, don't just instantly relax and tone things down because when your opponent is down that's when they're the most focused. Especially if it's someone who's better than you or at least normally beats you.

Where this applies specifically to more complicated characters, I can only really add that you have to practice your execution more, if messing that up is the thing that ruins your mentality. Or so the inputs are so ingrained in you that pressure doesn't affect it.

As for momentum it feels real but we have to remind ourselves it's still just an abstract concept. If your opponent seems like they have the run on you it's important to remember they're not actually in your head. In fact, their confidence in this situation might be harmful for them, causing them to go for a bit of risky play. Conversely if you feel like you have momentum yourself, it's important not to keep yourself locked on a certain strategy that seems to be working well. Continue mixing up bits of what you're doing to keep your opponent second-guessing themselves as they attempt to adapt back.

Not all this may apply to you specifically but I wanted to cover a few bases just in case.
H.Kazuhira wrote:Unrelated but I think I'm enjoying playing Sheik again. What's happening to me >,> I guess on the plus side it would be nice to have a High Tier Counter Pick up my sleeve.
To be fair Sheik is a somewhat reasonable character now. Less about the 50/50 confirms and more about creative killing options.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by H.Kazuhira » Sun Oct 30, 2016 8:14 pm

Holy crap, there's a lot to take in. Thanks for taking the time Libs! Think I'm starting to see some of the problems I face now. Going to try and keep a lot of this in mind.

As with Sheik, It's the creative aspect that's hooking me with her play style again. She feels a lot weaker but I actually like that about the character now.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:13 pm

Anytime.

Went to a regional Melee tourney yesterday with a few others. Got out of pools fine, kind of. It was only a pool of four to begin with and the lowest seed didn't turn up. But having played him before I really doubted that made a difference since I think he might have gone 0-2 in amateur bracket anyway if he bothered playing in it. The guy seeded below me was also basically free. However, I did end up losing the first game versus him and I was kind of bricking it.

He was an ICs player and all he basically did was roll to dsmash or fsmash or something like that. I also watched him wobble the top seed of the pool, but it was the slowest wobble I had ever seen in my life. Regardless, I guess it was good enough because the top seed decided to pause to signal he was just going to SD the stock away when he got to about 60% and I imagine he did try to mash out. Their games were actually kind of close but I guess the top seed wasn't really taking it that seriously. When I sat down to play him next, he put the headphones in since I guess I was the closest thing to a threat in the pool.

He won pretty convincingly but it was a good learning experience. I need to work on Marth-Falcon.

Then I fought the ICs player and as I said, I lost the first game. Not gonna lie, wasn't too pleased that there was a bit of a crowd watching (not bitter though - obviously it's fine to watch and they weren't rowdy). I was nervous then that there was a chance I would get knocked into amateurs when it should have been free and the rest of my crew would make it through fine. In game 2 I started to play a bit more safe. Waited a bit more and used d-tilt, which I don't use enough generally. But I don't think I played too lame. Got a few good reads. Game 2 was a cinch, game 3 I think was a tad shaky but if I recall correctly was still a 2-stock win.

There was a huge gap between pools and the bracket, especially since I was in the early morning wave. Thinking back on it, it may have been a 6 hour wait. I didn't mind though because I got to fill the time with friendlies, and we had crew battles. Each crew had 4 slots and there were 3 people who had a guaranteed place our crew, by being better. The 4th member was always probably going to be me but it was still a bit of a toss up between me and another guy from our city who wanted to be in. But since I wanted to be in the crew as well, I got the spot. Glad it didn't devolve into an argument because I didn't want to make a case and then end up messing up.

In our first crew battle we went up against a rival scene from the adjacent city. It was kind of rough, because while I'd say our scene was better overall, they pretty much had all their best players on their team. We were missing arguably our best player. Still it was definitely winnable. They sent out this Falcon we had never played before (since he had moved to their scene recently) and he went ham. Took at least 6 stocks I'm pretty sure. Everyone in my crew ended up underperforming, and when the opposing crew had 7 stocks left it was just me with my 4 stocks remaining on our side.

I was nervous. The one thing I had going for me was that the guy I was sent in to play first was a Marth and I have a pretty good record in the ditto. I had beaten this Marth the last time we played, too, and he was known for not being that great at it (he lost to another Marth from our city this tourney, one who is considered a little worse than me at the moment but is on the come-up). Still, this only added to the pressure, especially since I had in ways boasted about my proficiency in the match-up, albeit not altogether seriously. And of course, it was all up to me now.

But anyway, I sat down to play and was feeling the rush of adrenaline. We moved around tentatively for a bit, feeling each other out, but I noticed that he was moving a bit shaky. He had been playing well and had taken a good number of stocks himself, but I could tell he was choking a little now. I took a stock off him and taunted, and then I did it again. I could hear my crew getting a bit hype now. I ended up losing a stock but I was in the zone. Just knew that I had it, and as I was poised to take the next stock I could hear someone saying something along the lines of "He's carrying us right now."

Went into the last match, my 3 stocks to the remaining 4 on the other crew, and it was versus a guy I had never lost to in tournament. But he's been getting better and it was his counterpick. Sadly, I didn't end up having it. Got him down to the last stock though and, honestly, I was feeling pretty good about the way I played. On the journey home later that day, we decided we'd make this crew a thing. It was a lot of fun and I'm looking forward to next time. Next time, our strategies will be more solid.

When bracket finally came around I was in the rare position of having to play a person I had already played in my pool, and it was of course the top seed. I did better this second time around, but still lost. In losers, I had to play someone from my scene, a guy I have eliminated from the tournament pretty much every time we've played, and had never lost to. Not that the games are complete destruction but I've always been confident versus him. As usual he didn't seem too happy about it, and it sucks, but what can you do.

Then I lose to a Game & Watch.

I had no prior experience of the match-up but props to him. It was weird set, because I ended up 4 stocking him in one game. Then sometime afterwards he comes up to me and asks me some questions because he thinks I had some special matchup knowledge and was surprised. It was funny because I did lose and it's a pretty good MU for Marth, and I was just banning the stages I normally do and trying some stuff I do versus most characters. But I did work out for myself the Battlefield was a good pick because the ledges seem bad for his recovery.

All in all, in the tournament, I did "alright". Got 9th. Did virtually as well as I did the last tournament (which had more entrants), though I felt better about this one. I was playing better and I'm seeing the problems I have more clearly. I noticed I'm also getting more nervous about games, but it's just my growing motivation to actually play this game properly that's making me care a bit more about how I play. I've lost a bit of confidence which I do need to restore, but it's good that I lost that confidence in the first place because it made me realise I was off track on a few things.

Meanwhile, one of the best players in our scene got 2nd place, beating a decent Falco Alexis twice and then playing Willz in grands and not doing too bad. Didn't take a game but kept the games competitive. Honestly, just him getting that far is an achievement, but the way he's been playing it doesn't look like he's miles away from UK PR territory now. And of course, that's good for our scene.

Overall, the tourney was a good experience. Played adequately even though I have much room to improve - but no rush. Was good seeing some people again and meeting some new ones. Had some discount dominoes pizza. Generated hype, and also got hype for my boy.

Had fun, and would recommend this Smash tournament series (Fragsoc) to anyone. It's in York and there's Smash 4 as well as Melee. Its future is a bit uncertain since the main host is stepping down but it may continue under new hosts since it generated a decent amount of money. I would recommend attending tournaments in general though. From my experience, it's been mainly a good experience and the people are mostly chill.

On a side note, it's been amusing me that a few people think I properly play Fox. I suppose it is a sign that mine is improving decently, but I put my old plan to switch to him on the side a while ago and haven't been seriously practicing with him. Just bits, as a break to Marth practice, and I bust him in out in friendlies every now and then since he's so fun. Falco, too. Have found that learning them side by side isn't as problematic as I first thought. Getting used to the different timings. I may properly pick one of them up at some point, but I hope I keep the Marth for a long time.

Anyway, bit of an essay but wanted to put my thoughts down somewhere.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Troggy » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:12 pm

I'd like some advice, if that's alright.

So, my biggest weakness at the moment with Dedede and Duck Hunt is that I'm too predictable with them. How can I change up my approach in the future to be more tricky and unpredictable?

Also, is it worth it if I pick up a character like Pit or Cloud in the future to go with DDD and DHD? I think one of them would help me out nicely in the future.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Vtheyoshi » Mon Nov 07, 2016 9:25 pm

that was the greatest smash fan fic ever
Troggy wrote:I'd like some advice, if that's alright.

So, my biggest weakness at the moment with Dedede and Duck Hunt is that I'm too predictable with them. How can I change up my approach in the future to be more tricky and unpredictable?

Also, is it worth it if I pick up a character like Pit or Cloud in the future to go with DDD and DHD? I think one of them would help me out nicely in the future.
while you're obviously asking libs; I'd say pick up Cloud, he's like second best in the game currently and if you want to get anywhere you'll need to main a good character, realistically
unless you're jezo
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:09 pm

Troggy wrote:I'd like some advice, if that's alright.

So, my biggest weakness at the moment with Dedede and Duck Hunt is that I'm too predictable with them. How can I change up my approach in the future to be more tricky and unpredictable?

Also, is it worth it if I pick up a character like Pit or Cloud in the future to go with DDD and DHD? I think one of them would help me out nicely in the future.
I'll be honest, your playstyle is predictable with any character. Kind of because you play every character in a very similar way. The core of your game is rolling to downsmashes; occasional run-up grabs; intercepting with smash attacks when you could do something safer - something that would leave you less vulnerable if you missed.

Not being mean, just honest from my perspective. I'm sure players better than me find me predictable. There are levels of predictability.

I have no idea how to properly play Dedede or DHD nor can I be bothered to do the research but I'm sure if I watched some sets of top Dedede/DHD players playing I could get a decent idea fairly quickly. Watch sets - really watch them and focus on what they are doing. Try to emulate them but obviously don't just copy what they do in every situation. Keep thinking about mixing up your options.

Another key weakness you have is recovering from the ledge. I've found that when I linger around the ledge or run up or whatever, you'll choose to do a jump from the ledge - an option ironically referred to as the 'tournament winner' since it's so bad. I don't think it's as bad in Smash 4 as it is in other games, but it's still pretty inflexible and doesn't put you in a great position.

Try alternating between rolling onto the stage (pressing shield from ledge); getting onto the stage normally (tap towards the stage); dropping off from the ledge (down or away on the stick) and then jumping up with an attack, either fading back with it or moving up onto the stage with it (careful with this option because if you are hit away, that's you midair jump gone); or doing a getup attack (press an attack button from the ledge), which is one of the weaker options I feel, but is a useful mixup. Obviously, mixing up these options is important since if your opponent guesses which one you go for they can punish you for it. I don't think there's ever a need to do the jump from ledge option (press jump while hanging onto the ledge). Also be mindful that after 99% your ledge options are slower (apart from drop-from-ledge).

Again don't feel bad for being bad at the ledge. Sab was also amusingly kind of bad there in the past, also often going for the jump-from-ledge option (though he was still better than me overall), though I'm sure he's much better at the ledge now.

You don't need to play as a good character to do decently at this game. Maybe to win super majors, but none of us are really concerned about that at the moment. So play who you want. But out of the characters you mentioned Cloud does have the most potential, and as/if you get better at this game you'll probably find better characters more fun to play as since you'll be more adept at getting the most out of their options which they have plenty of. Pit is also fine in the long run. Not an amazing character but probably viable. Solid.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Jezo » Tue Nov 08, 2016 2:46 pm

Vtheyoshi wrote:that was the greatest smash fan fic ever
Troggy wrote:I'd like some advice, if that's alright.

So, my biggest weakness at the moment with Dedede and Duck Hunt is that I'm too predictable with them. How can I change up my approach in the future to be more tricky and unpredictable?

Also, is it worth it if I pick up a character like Pit or Cloud in the future to go with DDD and DHD? I think one of them would help me out nicely in the future.
while you're obviously asking libs; I'd say pick up Cloud, he's like second best in the game currently and if you want to get anywhere you'll need to main a good character, realistically
unless you're jezo
I basically only play top tiers lol
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:58 pm

Thanks for the input, Jezo. Real valuable, as always.

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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Vtheyoshi » Tue Nov 08, 2016 4:28 pm

Jezo wrote: I basically only play top tiers lol
didn't realise you were a goku main
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Rik » Tue Nov 08, 2016 11:50 pm

Any general tips for Ike and Link usage? Feel like Ike is the character I've learned most in terms of his hit distances/timings/approaches etc., plus he's my most confident off-ledge game (weird considering his recovery is a bit dodgy if you're not in the right place) but still feel like I need to brush up on matchups and stuff as well as just generally get good. Link I tend to use as my secondary if I'm having trouble breaking through with Ike, don't think I've learnt him as well as Ike but I feel like my change in approach between the two helps to catch people off guard.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Jezo » Wed Nov 09, 2016 9:44 am

Rik wrote:Any general tips for Ike and Link usage? Feel like Ike is the character I've learned most in terms of his hit distances/timings/approaches etc., plus he's my most confident off-ledge game (weird considering his recovery is a bit dodgy if you're not in the right place) but still feel like I need to brush up on matchups and stuff as well as just generally get good. Link I tend to use as my secondary if I'm having trouble breaking through with Ike, don't think I've learnt him as well as Ike but I feel like my change in approach between the two helps to catch people off guard.
Check out Ryo (Ike) and Izaw (Link) on youtube.
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Re: Super Smash Bros general discussion

Post by Kriken » Thu Nov 10, 2016 9:34 pm

^ Yeah, definitely that.

Trouble with asking with general character-specific advice on here is that no-one here has gotten close to mastering any character or at least playing them close to the best possible known way(s). Half decent with a character or two maybe, but that's about it. Sets and video guides are best for this kind of stuff.

I can give better advice non character specific stuff. Like in our set and friendlies Rik, the thing I looked out to exploit was your rolls. Rolled a bit too much, and in a familiar pattern I sussed out. But your use of jabs is mostly good. Easy low-risk damage.
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