Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by JenovaPX » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:01 pm

Blaxel411 wrote:gooseberry fool a robot is perfectly fine as long as they aren't sentient.
You mean sapient
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Chocolate-Milk » Thu Sep 01, 2016 9:03 pm

Either or
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Tsunade » Thu Sep 01, 2016 10:17 pm

Wouldn't they just be like the blow up dolls men have used for ages, except mechanical (and can make noises I'm guessing? I haven't read anything about this apart from what you've all posted) If that's the case then it'll probably have the same impact as the first fleshlight did. And something like that probably wouldn't be cheap to buy, so it's not like everyone could just buy one to try.

Tbh I don't really care what goes on behind closed doors. If people use robots to give them some sexy time, then that's their business.

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Scapegoat » Thu Sep 01, 2016 11:38 pm


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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by beansontoast » Fri Sep 02, 2016 12:28 am

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Cruizer » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:33 pm

Note, I elude to Black Mirror here but try to be vague to avoid spoilers - I mention overall themes but try not to go into detail with specific plot points. But perhaps avoid the bit beneath where I quote Met if you are particularly sensitive to spoillers please.

I identify as a robot feminist - if you believe that robotic women should have equal political, social and economic representation as males you are also a de-facto robot feminst I am not an ass-hole [ciatation needed] and robot feminist is basically just short-hand for "i'm not an ass-hole"    
Blaxel411 wrote:gooseberry fool a robot is perfectly fine as long as they aren't sentient. Honestly if someone is hopeless with human relationships let them gooseberry fool a damn robot and get some joy out of life. If you're scared a robot will replace you then you're clearly doing something wrong.
The thing is this blurs the line of what sentience is, of what consciness is - of what intelligence is.  Do we have soul, is it possible for robots to have a sole, are humans anything more than tissue that reacts to stimulus therefore does a brain (which is like a delivery mechanism that acts on electrical activity) have any more value than a computer.

The two main issues of sex robots are

1) They will negatively affect the way "real" human interact with each other; it undermines the idea of consent and reduces empathy and promote inequality.  Essentially sex robots are based on the same business model as prostitution (which is inarguably harmful to both those directly in the sex-trade and society as a whole).  The Campaign Against Sex Robots (who I 100% agree with) say sex-robots / AI women programmed to be submissive would likely further dehumanise and objectify already vulnerable people and act as enablers for abuse and enforce ideas of inferiority and victimisation.

2) More importantly it's that the sex-robots themselves don't have any rights.  Originally I thought perhaps these should be alowed if the industry is heavily regulated, the robots are protected by law and they have rights - and if they are essentially robotic girl-friends (not sex objects) where their unique qualities and emotions are appreciated.  But basically it would be impossible for the robotic girlfriend to ever be equal as they are bought by men and sold into sex slavery - the whole premise is based on the idea that robot womens bodies are objects that are there to be consumed by men - so I would call for an outright ban on them.
Met wrote:What if, in order to live forever, I transferred my consciousness into an autoblow? Would that be OK?
Black Mirror touches on this in two episodes ("be right back" and "white Christmas") In White Christmas they are saying that AI is essentially human.  It features replica's of yourself in a computer prison where your virtural self serves your real self.  There was also a digital copy of a man that committed a crime in an e*g shaped thing that the police tortured    The digital copy felt THAT punishment and isn't any less real because it's AI, because it's sentience was produced digitally.  The digital copy feels, pain, trauma, time passing, guilt etc exactly as it's human counterpart would - it's doesn't matter if your brain was taken out and replaced with a chip that is then placed inside your human body or your consciouness is copied in digital form and put inside an computer it's no different to torturing a person.  This is why AI should have rights.

Vaguely related to "I'll be right back" I've order a book called "Goodbye for Now" by Laurie Frankel about a computer programme that gets information from a deads loved one via social media.  There is also a creepy real app that sends your loved one social media messages from your real life accounts after you've died by going through your accounts and sending messages based on your online persona....which creeps the heck out of me.
Last edited by Cruizer on Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by OrangeRakoon » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:39 pm

Cruizer wrote:1) They will negatively affect the way "real" human interact with each other; it undermines the idea of consent and reduces empathy and promote inequality.
[citation needed]
Cruizer wrote:2) More importantly it's that the sex-robots themselves don't have any rights.
Just like calculators, or your 3DS. If you make a sex robot that is intelligent and conscious you've massively overengineered the problem. Why would that happen.

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Kappa » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:42 pm

would you call an anime character sentient?

since vr is the future the easiest way to make sexbots would be to do it in vr thus it is easier to make an anime girl cream in vr and anime girls are just animated stereotypes thus they are not even close to human and it's still feminist since they probably pass the bechdel test since they don't just talk about penises

thus, sex bots are inherently feminist

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Shio hime » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:45 pm

Cruizer wrote:Do we have soul
No.
Cruizer wrote:is it possible for robots to have a sole
No.
Cruizer wrote:are humans anything more than tissue that reacts to stimulus
No.
Cruizer wrote:therefore does a brain (which is like a delivery mechanism that acts on electrical activity) have any more value than a computer.
Not really.
Cruizer wrote:1) They will negatively affect the way "real" human interact with each other;
Prove it.
Cruizer wrote:it undermines the idea of consent and reduces empathy and promote inequality[/b].
Prove it.
Cruizer wrote:Essentially sex robots are based on the same business model as prostitution (which is inarguably harmful to both those directly in the sex-trade and society as a whole).
Not really.
Cruizer wrote:The Campaign Against Sex Robots (who I 100% agree with) say sex-robots / AI women programmed to be submissive would likely further dehumanise and objectify already vulnerable people and act as enablers for abuse and enforce ideas of inferiority and victimisation.
Therefore so do women who choose to be submissive.
Cruizer wrote:2) More importantly it's that the sex-robots themselves don't have any rights.
It's a machine with no observable conscious thought.
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Met » Sat Sep 03, 2016 12:58 pm

Should AI have rights?
Should AI have the right to vote?
Don't you worry that goes against the entirety of the democratic process as AI can't do anything outside of predetermined logical rules and are therefore never truly their own person regardless of how deep you make their programming. You'd wind up with a template electee every time, completely nulifying the point of the process.
Don't you worry we'd wind up in a MGS-esque world where AI is left to pick who goes in charge based on logic patterns and how to best push forward the economy, leading to an increase in PMCs and eternal wars as that is the logical end-game of the economic path?
Should cows have the right to vote?
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Rik » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:32 pm

Met wrote:Should cows have the right to vote?
He's already answered that one in the past
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Vtheyoshi » Sat Sep 03, 2016 2:56 pm

Cruizer wrote:I identify as a robot feminist
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Scapegoat » Sat Sep 03, 2016 9:05 pm

if it has a hole you can gooseberry fool it no problems.
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by IronHide » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:19 pm

Only a truly sentient, self aware robotic 'being' should be given the same basic rights as a human (of either sex or any gender) so something akin to a blow up doll, albeit one that moans with faked pleasure, talks dirty and looks semi realistic is still just a sex toy.

A more sophisticated sex robot like those in AI (both female and male versions) or Ex Machina however would be more of a grey area as they are extremely similar in both appearance and behaviour to real humans and might actually object to being placed in their situation, in which case they should have the right to say no and be given equal rights.

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Shio hime » Sun Sep 04, 2016 8:52 pm

Any robot that denies me sex is getting sent back.
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Kappa » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:15 pm

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/1723964 ... to-expert/

here is some more journalism about robot sex to discuss

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Met » Mon Sep 05, 2016 3:42 pm

Well, maybe real girls should just be as perfect as my anime and we wouldn't need to be addicted.
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Quarg Ranger » Mon Sep 05, 2016 4:21 pm

Met wrote:Should AI have rights?
Should AI have the right to vote?
Don't you worry that goes against the entirety of the democratic process as AI can't do anything outside of predetermined logical rules and are therefore never truly their own person regardless of how deep you make their programming. You'd wind up with a template electee every time, completely nulifying the point of the process.
Don't you worry we'd wind up in a MGS-esque world where AI is left to pick who goes in charge based on logic patterns and how to best push forward the economy, leading to an increase in PMCs and eternal wars as that is the logical end-game of the economic path?
Should cows have the right to vote?
A true AI in the sense that it is indistinguishably intelligent (i.e. the process to which it reaches conclusions is inherently obscured) should have rights. Whether it should have the right to vote is a difficult issue, because obviously what counts as 'one person one vote' in this instance is very difficult to determine.

If someone builds an aware AI just for the purpose of sex they should be put in jail probably. No-one anywhere is advocating this type of thing as far as I'm aware.

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Sex robots are fine. Like someone else mentioned, would you call use of a vibrator rape of the vibrator? No, of course not. But the vibrator is programmed.

I don't know how damaging sexualisation of women in a sexual context is.

People want sex regardless of however accessible sex is. That will continue to fuel problems, unless we all become asexual, which isn't going to happen. If anything, virtual sex could alleviate the stress of the whole thing.

I think that you've latched onto something that someone has said, developed an emotional attachment to the argument, and now are refusing to criticise that argument. Projecting human attachment to inanimate objects is dangerous for your mentality, and I'd encourage you to take a step back.

If you don't understand any programming, here's a small analogy. Coding as it stands now is just like setting up a marble run. The code is the run, and when you set it off, the marble just completes the course. The course can be as complex as you like, but every time you run the marble from the same position, it'll complete the same track.

Human brains and animal brains don't appear to work like that, though it's generally accepted that at some level they do. But there's a reason we don't give a calculator rights, but we give animals rights, and that is perfectly reasonable. We know how the calculator works, and we don't know how animal brains work, so we have to take on trust that animals aren't just being marbles, because the slightest chance the other way holds terrible moral consequences.

The calculator doesn't want rights, it is inconceivable that it has any mechanism that allows it to be cognizant, it just follows a set of rules. And we know the set of rules it follows.
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Wrathy » Tue Sep 06, 2016 11:57 pm

I've not read this thread or any posts really but my stance on this is summed up in two points:

A) there's no entitlement or requirement to sex, therefore this is unnecessary male entitlement (obvs)
B) if the robots aren't sentient and are more akin to remote control things or programmes running automatically I literally don't care what you do to them, but if it encourages the sex trade through destigmatisation and increased demand, then I'd be passively against it

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Blaxel411 » Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:12 pm

Wait, why are we forgetting about male sex bots? Are we forgeting that gay men and women might want to be drilled by a robot with a dick? Does the dickbot need rights too? Or is it just the vagbot?
Cruizer wrote: 1) They will negatively affect the way "real" human interact with each other; it undermines the idea of consent and reduces empathy and promote inequality.
Assuming that humans are unable to separate sex toys from other humans. There's a reason sex toys can't overtake human sex. You can't really have the same kind of relationship with a robot that you can with a human. Unless you are mentally challenged in some form, you would use sexbots as a way to get your nut off when you're not currently in a relationship, or your significant other isn't in the mood. Only a minority of people will completely give up on human interaction alltogether. And most of this minority would be those that have already been shunned by society. And if you're going to be the prick going "don't gooseberry fool that robot! gooseberry fool a real person instead!" while actually being able to find someone who will gooseberry fool you, then you're a dick.
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by The False Guwuh » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:05 am

Cruizer wrote: the sexualisation of female robots is a violation of humankinds autonomy.
What the gooseberry fool does this mean? What is a female robot?? What the gooseberry fool does this have to do with "humankinds autonomy"???
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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Warmij » Sun Sep 11, 2016 11:43 pm

Quarg Ranger wrote:
Met wrote:Should AI have rights?
Should AI have the right to vote?
Don't you worry that goes against the entirety of the democratic process as AI can't do anything outside of predetermined logical rules and are therefore never truly their own person regardless of how deep you make their programming. You'd wind up with a template electee every time, completely nulifying the point of the process.
Don't you worry we'd wind up in a MGS-esque world where AI is left to pick who goes in charge based on logic patterns and how to best push forward the economy, leading to an increase in PMCs and eternal wars as that is the logical end-game of the economic path?
Should cows have the right to vote?
A true AI in the sense that it is indistinguishably intelligent (i.e. the process to which it reaches conclusions is inherently obscured) should have rights. Whether it should have the right to vote is a difficult issue, because obviously what counts as 'one person one vote' in this instance is very difficult to determine.

If someone builds an aware AI just for the purpose of sex they should be put in jail probably. No-one anywhere is advocating this type of thing as far as I'm aware.
This whole post is a big bunch of eton mess.

Artificial intelligence is not the same thing as sentience, even if it is indistinguishable from real intelligence. No, AI should never have rights, unless somehow sentience is achieved (which is beyond improbable)

If someone builds an AI just for sex, then they are probably a genius, but a gooseberry fool anti-social genius. Certainly nothing wrong with it.

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Karl » Tue Sep 13, 2016 2:12 pm

Warmij wrote:Artificial intelligence is not the same thing as sentience, even if it is indistinguishable from real intelligence.
Why? I mean, what separates a thing that perfectly mimics sentience (e.g. by describing its own realistic, human-like thought processes & introspection) from a real sentient thing?

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by Warmij » Tue Sep 13, 2016 6:28 pm

Karl wrote:
Warmij wrote:Artificial intelligence is not the same thing as sentience, even if it is indistinguishable from real intelligence.
Why? I mean, what separates a thing that perfectly mimics sentience (e.g. by describing its own realistic, human-like thought processes & introspection) from a real sentient thing?
You answered your question yourself - about what separates a thing that perfectly mimics sentience from a real sentient thing - the "mimic" part.

It's pretty easy to distinguish, on a code level, whether or not an artificial intelligence is genuinely self aware or just well coded for plenty of possible outcomes.

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Re: Robot Feminism: The ethics of having sex with a robot

Post by OrangeRakoon » Tue Sep 13, 2016 7:15 pm

Warmij wrote:
Karl wrote:
Warmij wrote:Artificial intelligence is not the same thing as sentience, even if it is indistinguishable from real intelligence.
Why? I mean, what separates a thing that perfectly mimics sentience (e.g. by describing its own realistic, human-like thought processes & introspection) from a real sentient thing?
You answered your question yourself - about what separates a thing that perfectly mimics sentience from a real sentient thing - the "mimic" part.

It's pretty easy to distinguish, on a code level, whether or not an artificial intelligence is genuinely self aware or just well coded for plenty of possible outcomes.
If it perfectly mimics sentience then it should be as difficult to distinguish as a real person.

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