Should marijuana be legalised?

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bort
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by bort » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:50 pm

what does the walkers part mean, is that like a packet of crisps or something because that doesnt sound that bad tbh

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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Chocolate-Milk » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:55 pm

As in a Zimmer frame, because they're unable to walk unaided.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by bort » Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:58 pm

i reckon force feeding them ketchup crisps would be worse in the short term

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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Chocolate-Milk » Mon Sep 05, 2016 6:08 pm

Eliminate the chance of recovery, I like your style.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Twi » Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:34 pm

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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Cruizer » Sun Nov 27, 2016 2:48 pm

@Row you may enjoy a documentary I saw a couple of years ago called "the house I live in" (or as I call it "the house in which I live") or some of the stuff that Chomsky written about the American War on Drugs which talks about drug prohibition is responsbile for brutal crimes and how drug policy in America is used to control the " "underclass"
-----------------------------------------

the tldr version of my answer is "I don't know whether or not we should legalize marijuana".

I personally have experimented (I mean "took", I haven't experimented - there was no independent variables and I won't be publishing a paper with footnoted references on the subject) with substances (not necessarily in this country) and it hasn't done me any harm - and I also think there are some types of people that would benefit from recreational drug use; but at the same time there are people which should never take drugs so I am not sure that the government should be condoning it's use.

One thing that does put me off using substances is I worry people suffer in it's production and that people buying drugs are funding an international criminal economy - if drugs were legal and regulated we could have "fair trade" drugs.

--------------------------------------------------

Whilst I'm not sure about whether we should legalise it, we should decriminalise people using it (I'm not sure if "decriminlise" is the correct word - I'm not talking about dealers but rather not hassling people that do take drugs and therefore helping towards if people do have to take drugs they can do so in as safe condition as possible). There is help available for addicts which is good - but the maligning of drug users doesn't help and just ensures unsafe, unregulated drug use and people that do need help not seeking it. Not persecuting addicts would also free up some of the police forces time.
row101 wrote:
I do not consume these substances myself, however my most fundamental political belief is that a free citizen should not be prevented from doing things which do not harm others. This is the same reason I am pro-gun, I believe that every day that marijuana is illegal in the UK is an assault on the ideals of liberty and freedom -- I may mostly identify as progressive in my political views, but I do also have several libertarian views.
I'm not specifically talking about drug-use but I do take issue with the idea of "do what you want, if it doesn't hurt others but may harm yourself" (if that is indeed what you are saying, apologies in advance if I misread your intent). Firstly, it's rare people are only harming themselves, there's always secondary effects be it on the individuals family or hospital resource if they make themself ill. But mainly as a society we have all have an obligation and collective responsibility towards each other and sometimes that means we have to say in our laws "you can't do this or you must do that" (e.g. I think gambling should be illegal and it should be the law you have to wear a seat-belt in a car).
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by row101 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:11 pm

Cruizer wrote:
I personally have experimented (I mean "took", I haven't experimented - there was no independent variables and I won't be publishing a paper with footnoted references on the subject) with substances (not necessarily in this country) and it hasn't done me any harm - and I also think there are some types of people that would benefit from recreational drug use; but at the same time there are people which should never take drugs so I am not sure that the government should be condoning it's use.

One thing that does put me off using substances is I worry people suffer in it's production and that people buying drugs are funding an international criminal economy - if drugs were legal and regulated we could have "fair trade" drugs.
There are many people who are also unable to drink alcohol responsibly. It's tough to balance of course, but I don't think people should be stopped from enjoying themselves, rather there needs to be education around the topic in the same way there is with alcohol, but the government right now is more interested in fear-mongering.

I don't believe anything beyond Marijuana should be legalised though, I've heard some say that Marijuana is a gateway drug and that legalising it would put more people on the path to Heroin and others. But I think by having marijuana sold through regulated channels would segment it from the illegal drug trade, a citizen using legal marijuana wouldn't be pressured by the dealer to go for more, and the safety of a legal drug would probably deter people from experimenting with more extreme ones.
Cruizer wrote:
row101 wrote:
I do not consume these substances myself, however my most fundamental political belief is that a free citizen should not be prevented from doing things which do not harm others. This is the same reason I am pro-gun, I believe that every day that marijuana is illegal in the UK is an assault on the ideals of liberty and freedom -- I may mostly identify as progressive in my political views, but I do also have several libertarian views.
I'm not specifically talking about drug-use but I do take issue with the idea of "do what you want, if it doesn't hurt others but may harm yourself" (if that is indeed what you are saying, apologies in advance if I misread your intent). Firstly, it's rare people are only harming themselves, there's always secondary effects be it on the individuals family or hospital resource if they make themself ill. But mainly as a society we have all have an obligation and collective responsibility towards each other and sometimes that means we have to say in our laws "you can't do this or you must do that" (e.g. I think gambling should be illegal and it should be the law you have to wear a seat-belt in a car).
I don't think gambling should be illegal but I do support seatbelts, I have several libertarian views but I'm not the insane kind that doesn't believe in mundane things like driving licenses or seatbelts. This is why I support the right of women to control their own bodies, I support the right of free citizens to marry who they wish, I support the right of the people to keep and bear arms (of course there must be regulation to ensure that those who would hurt others do not obtain a gun). But I also support common-sense measures like environmental regulations (not having it does harm others long-term) and the minimum wage (again, not having it is harmful to society). So I'm don't hold some of the more extreme libertarian views.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by JacquesLEB » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:03 pm

Yes, there is no rational reason to keep it illegal at this point, war on drugs is a proven failure and its success in places like Colorado generates a lot of tax revenue, this should be a no brainer for liberals and conservatives alike, money and freedom, its a win win.

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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Cruizer » Mon Nov 28, 2016 11:52 pm

Hi Row and Jac, Like I say I'm kind of riding the fence a bit about whether I think it should be legalised (but am leaning a bit more to legalising it).

I'm not at all interested in if it would generate revenue nor I am interested in creating a level playing field with [the also potentially harmful] alcohol. I personally am only interested in if people need to smoke drugs - they're not hassled and can do so as safely as possible and help is available for people that need it.
row101 wrote:I don't believe anything beyond Marijuana should be legalised though,
Question though (Row); if you are pro-legalising marijuana - why not other drugs? Some people are fine with marijuana in moderation some aren't and for them it can be very harmful; equally some people are fine with more potent drugs in moderation and others aren't - so why be pro one and not the other?
jacq wrote:war on drugs is a proven failure
Also Jacq, is there particularly "a war drugs" specifically a war on marijuana in this country? There is help available for addicts (there should be more - but would legalising help this?) and is arresting users of marijuana high on the police priorities (not being rhetoric by the way - genuinely asking) - it isn't legal par say at the moment - but I'm sure marijuana is around enough that I could source some if I wanted to and probably wouldn't get in trouble unless I went in public and acted like dick-head on it's influence.

In Jamaica; it's not legal as such - but it's very tolerated, it's everywhere and you won't get in trouble unless you are acting like an idiot - it's a sort of civil compromise and I kind think perhaps that way of decrimilising but not legalising is MAYBE the we should be heading.
Bleachyleachy wrote:Story time

Last day of university. Housemates and I all go out and get jolly drunk. Come back home and one guy lights up a joint and passes it around. My other housemate, not a recreational drug user, thinks sure why not and has a go. Not really a big deal
Said friend is due to start his graduate job at a huge multinational engineering firm in a few weeks. Before that he must have a drug test. This came about a week after he smoked. Unfortunately he failed on cannabis, not realising that traces stay in your system for as long as 30 days afterwards
He quickly explains what happened to the manager (after debating if he should play the whole "well I was in Amsterdam where I smoked it legally!") but frustratingly that didn't cut it. Huge corporations have to do absolutely everything by the books it seems, and even a trace of cannabis, if only from a one time use, is enough for them to terminate a contract

So in summary, friend has a puff on a joint, thinks Ok cool and hands it back - costs him a job
Call him unlucky, stupid for not thinking ahead about the test or whatever, but boy did I think that was an overreaction on the company's part

So I'm all for decriminalising it
That definitely sucks for your friend - and I feel sorry for him. Question though - would the story be any different if marijuana was legal? My company can potentially do random drug tests - but am I right in saying they are just testing for illegal drugs - but seeing if I am under the influence of any mind altering substances (e.g. alcohol) whilst working? Similarly if you're friend went out drinking the night before and there was an excessive amount of alcohol in his system at the test centre - would he have also failed the test and be denied employment [and if marijuana was legal even though he may have ingested in 20 days earlier but was in his system - would he have been denied employment]?? Again I don't know- genuinely asking.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by row101 » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:19 am

Cruizer wrote:Hi Row and Jac, Like I say I'm kind of riding the fence a bit about whether I think it should be legalised (but am leaning a bit more to legalising it).

I'm not at all interested in if it would generate revenue nor I am interested in creating a level playing field with [the also potentially harmful] alcohol. I personally am only interested in if people need to smoke drugs - they're not hassled and can do so as safely as possible and help is available for people that need it.
row101 wrote:I don't believe anything beyond Marijuana should be legalised though,
Question though (Row); if you are pro-legalising marijuana - why not other drugs? Some people are fine with marijuana in moderation some aren't and for them it can be very harmful; equally some people are fine with more potent drugs in moderation and others aren't - so why be pro one and not the other?
Because Marijuana has been proven to be non-harmful, as opposed to something like Heroin or Cocaine both of which can kill people. This isn't about different people's standards, the simple fact is that you can't in all likelihood ever die from overdosing marijuana. Any negative consequences are only the result of one's own failure to use it responsibly rather than a result of the drug itself, and that can happen with anything. But other drugs have very serious side effects that make them unacceptable for public use.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Shio hime » Tue Nov 29, 2016 1:42 pm

I have no interest in taking it myself, but know plenty of people that like it. I don't like the smell, but I also don't like the smell of dead goat or eton mess so I'm not really bothered as long as my house/my work don't smell of it.
Legalise it, tax it, regulate it. There really isn't a downside.

Every pound spent on the war on drugs is a pound that could be spent genetically engineering catgirls for human ownership.

Also I abuse the eton mess out of alcohol which is definitely harmful and somehow still legal so weed being illegal is ridiculous. If anything alcohol is the perfect example of how prohibition doesn't work and trying to prohibit a substance is not the answer.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Cruizer » Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:38 pm

Yeah you may not overdose in one evening - but whilst I've always had a good relationship with marijuana and other substances lots of people can't (they're probably the same people that wouldn't have a good relationship with alcohol). Marijuana frequently over a long period of time is unhealthy.

Like I say I'm not interested in creating a level playing-field with alcohol - we already have enough problems with alcohol and smoking - so although I lean more towards legalising it I am reluctant for the state to legalise and thus condone something very similar that is equally harmful / perhaps slightly less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes.

Again I don't give a toss about the country creating revenue from marijuana and I can't imagine why anyone here would think any profit from legalised mild drugs is going to trickle down to them

-----------------------------------------------

I keep hearing the problems America had with alcohol prohibtion as a good argument to legalise marijuana. Is this even a fair comparison? I drink alcohol and would be bread and buttered if the government suddenly made it illegal, but I've no doubt that alcohol with all the problems people have with addiction and the cause of violent crime (yes I'm aware this is really a problem with the consumer of alcohol rather than the alcohol itself) that alcohol cause more harm than good. Didn't prohibition fail because the US government made something that was legal into something illegal (not the case with marijuana) and normal wouldn't stand for it and the governement realised (what with the creation of the mafia and all the violent death from trying and failing to keep something that is harmful illegal) wasn't worth it so this was the reason that legalised it again.

Do we have anywhere near as many problem in the UK with keeping marijuana illegal as US did with prohibiting alcohol?
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Bleachyleachy » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:07 pm

Cruizer wrote:That definitely sucks for your friend - and I feel sorry for him. Question though - would the story be any different if marijuana was legal? My company can potentially do random drug tests - but am I right in saying they are just testing for illegal drugs - but seeing if I am under the influence of any mind altering substances (e.g. alcohol) whilst working? Similarly if you're friend went out drinking the night before and there was an excessive amount of alcohol in his system at the test centre - would he have also failed the test and be denied employment [and if marijuana was legal even though he may have ingested in 20 days earlier but was in his system - would he have been denied employment]?? Again I don't know- genuinely asking.
See this is the thing, alcohol doesn't stay in the system long at all (there'll be no trace after 48 hours) and ironically the same is true for substances far riskier than MJ. Coke, heroin and MDMA all disappear without a trace in a matter of days. MJ however can hang around for weeks on end if you're a regular user - hence it's much easier for an occasional user of MJ to get caught than someone who regularly uses coke, for example.

You're right about companies not wanting employees working on the job whilst on mind altering substances, but a puff of MJ the night before you wake up for work is no worse than having a few beers the night before. (Well, unless you really go ham and smoke a lot, then the high can last a while)

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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by JenovaPX » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:14 pm

"Can't overdose in one evening..." No, you can't overdose, there's no but to this. Overall the health implications of marijuana have been heavily studied and to call it unhealthy is kind of wrong. In moderation it's got health benefits and with certain problems it's a great medical aid, just as a regular smoker, yeah it's not exactly eating an apple but the health problems associated with it are minor compared to other legal drugs. Only real problem that warrants mentioning is the issues associated with smoking frequently during developmental periods, particularly adolescence.

No, weed is not "perhaps slightly less harmful than alcohol and cigarettes", generally agreed by everyone that it is substantially less harmful than both of them. The fact that it's illegal has never been because of any harm it does, it's just historic reasons that have failed to be addressed reasonably and has resulted in the demonisation of certain substances.

No one thinks that the revenue generated will trickle down to them. It's that it's a highly taxable source of revenue combined with the fact that we'd not be spending as much on the war on drugs so there's more money/less cuts.

Again, no one's saying that we have the same problems as America did with prohibition. All that's said is that prohibition doesn't work and supports criminal activity.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Bleachyleachy » Sun Dec 04, 2016 6:17 pm

Also relevant


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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Cruizer » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:05 pm

All that's fair enough (like I say it's not an issue I feel particularly strongly about and lean more towards legalising it) - I do just worry that something that is now in the sub-culture becomes main-stream (I know everyone's tried it and I've actually encouraged people to use substances - but I would worry if recreational marijuana use became more mainstream).

I knew, it won't kill you - I'm not sure I 100% agree on how minor the health effects are made out to be (does it not effect motor performace / cognitive function and surely inhaling it would lead to lung and airway damage (is bronchotis associated with marijuana use) - I'll look into it sometime, I'm sure there's good info out there). Ancedotally, I do know someone that use it for medical reason (which is amazingly helpful to him) but it's very obvious long-term use of it has had an effect on his mind and effects normal functions. I'd also be interested in it's addictiveness / how great marijuana dependency is or if it exacerbates schizophrenia etc- again I'll look into it.

But yeah, basically agree with the common consensus here/
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by D.J » Thu Dec 08, 2016 8:03 am

Cruizer wrote:and surely inhaling it would lead to lung and airway damage (is bronchotis associated with marijuana use) - I'll look into it sometime
But surely this type of issue could be avoided altogether if it was ingested via cakes/cookies/other things rather than being smoked? The shops in Amsterdam sell it in all sorts of different food items as an alternative for non smokers.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Kappa » Thu Dec 08, 2016 10:34 am

smoking is for suckers

vape/eat it up

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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by JenovaPX » Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:43 pm

Cruizer wrote:and surely inhaling it would lead to lung and airway damage (is bronchotis associated with marijuana use) - I'll look into it sometime
Yes but as I said it's minor compared to the damage done by tobacco smoking.
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Kappa » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:09 pm

yeah but if you don't smoke blunts you're still getting in bare baccy fumes

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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Vtheyoshi » Thu Dec 08, 2016 6:39 pm

Yeah excessive smoking of it can cause some lung damage, especially with tobacco, tho I doubt it's as bad as pure tobacco and yeah vaping or eating it is healthier and gives you a bigger high
In terms of addiction, I think the herb itself doesn't really contain anything addictive, though you can presumably get addicted to the high. I my experience, I've never felt any urge or need for it even if I hadn't had it for a while.
And finally, from stories from relatives who worked in health care, it seems like triggering mental diseases is a problem, though I am not sure how much that is based in science
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Re: Should marijuana be legalised?

Post by Twi » Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:57 am

it is not physically, but psychologically addictive due to its nature of being a psychoactive. it targets Cbd receptors and therefore I assume has an affect on the dopaminergic system as a whole.

food's psychologically addictive too though.

you're all life addicts, face it.

anyway i honestly believe the illegalisation of cannabis has roots a lot more insidious than anti-legalisation advocates would care to admit. by nature of this fact, i think it should be legalised.


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