The Next US President

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HassyTheSassy
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Re: The Next US President

Post by HassyTheSassy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:29 pm

The False Guwuh wrote: hassy this is a thread for talking about the next us president, not a thread for you to reaffirm your ego.
yes, of course, which begs the question: why did YOU, in response to me highlighting your clumsy attempt to deflect accusations of racism back onto row, instantly switch from defending breitbart's integrity as a publication to excoriating my post history on this site? you're the one who chose to instigate a catfight and in doing so make the focal point of this thread my content, not me¯\_(ツ)_/¯
it is because they dont inspire any thoughts in anyone who reads them
evidently untrue, if they provoked you into writing a paragraph long diatribe about them ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ANYWAY i can't believe this is a subject of debate but if it isn't already obvious what i think then yes breitbart is a white nationalist site. one common talking point among groups supported by the alt right and alt right publications including breitbart and so on is how multiculturalism erodes the national identity of western countries, homogenizing them as they all become indistinct hodgepodges of clashing cultures, and how in order to cling onto said identities they must FIGHT BACK against the building of mosques/"swarms" of immigrants/etc, against how inner cities have deteriorated from the crown jewels of a mighty nation to battlegrounds between warring gangs because of laxer policies on black people (this is what "black and black violence" taps into). this is literally a core tenet of white nationalism: race as integral to the identity of a nation, PoC re-imagined as toxifying the country

like gooseberry fool's sake if anything is too cowardly it's being unable to admit you're just racist
:mrgreen:

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Re: The Next US President

Post by Spilskinanka » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:49 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

don't mind me just reaffirming my ego
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Re: The Next US President

Post by Decretum » Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:50 pm

/pol/power
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HassyTheSassy
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Re: The Next US President

Post by HassyTheSassy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:02 pm

uh please stop posting vapid eton mess guys??? reading your posts is like munching popcorn while watching a film

of course popcorn is a delicious snack that enhances the whole cinema experience like man i could DEVOUR buckets of that eton mess if i weren't on a diet so really this is more of a compliment if you ask me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: The Next US President

Post by Bes » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:26 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: The Next US President

Post by Kappa » Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:39 pm

i have a hypothesis that breitbart readers use the site so that they can feel that they are bright but they were not bright enough to realise that "breit" is not the same as "bright" as they are not very bright so then they get indoctrinated by its white nationalism cult

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Re: The Next US President

Post by Warmij » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:35 pm

Islam is not a race

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Re: The Next US President

Post by Rik » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:32 pm

It is if you find enough people to run it with
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Re: The Next US President

Post by HassyTheSassy » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:39 pm

makes you think
:mrgreen:

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Re: The Next US President

Post by JacquesLEB » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:40 pm

The False Guwuh wrote:yet another nothing post by hassy the sassy because they are too much of a pussy to ever express a concrete opinion on anything
"hassy the sassy" has better content in one post than you do in your entire existence on this forum.

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Re: The Next US President

Post by Warmij » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:42 pm

JacquesLEB wrote:
The False Guwuh wrote:yet another nothing post by hassy the sassy because they are too much of a pussy to ever express a concrete opinion on anything
"hassy the sassy" has better content in one post than you do in your entire existence on this forum.
This

but then again, so do the web crawler bots so I'm not sure if that's saying much

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Re: The Next US President

Post by The False Guwuh » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:35 pm

HassyTheSassy wrote:
ANYWAY i can't believe this is a subject of debate but if it isn't already obvious what i think then yes breitbart is a white nationalist site. one common talking point among groups supported by the alt right and alt right publications including breitbart and so on is how multiculturalism erodes the national identity of western countries, homogenizing them as they all become indistinct hodgepodges of clashing cultures, and how in order to cling onto said identities they must FIGHT BACK against the building of mosques/"swarms" of immigrants/etc, against how inner cities have deteriorated from the crown jewels of a mighty nation to battlegrounds between warring gangs because of laxer policies on black people (this is what "black and black violence" taps into). this is literally a core tenet of white nationalism: race as integral to the identity of a nation, PoC re-imagined as toxifying the country

like gooseberry fool's sake if anything is too cowardly it's being unable to admit you're just racist
I appreciate that you posted an actual stance here but there are a lot of misconceptions in your post. firstly you have conflated breitbart as a publication with your personal idea of who reads it, and while white nationalists certainly do read breitbart articles they are certainly not the target audience or majority of the readership, and i would guess that many of them have read articles from news sites you also use. A white nationalist website would probably not employ jewish and other minority journalists.

Furthermore a dislike of multiculturalism is certainly nationalist, but there is no reason to add terms like "white nationalist" of "racist" into the mix. Nationalism is the belief that a common cultural bond is required for the people of a country to have democratic self determination. It doesnt mean "no blacks", becausea black person who was raised in england outside of a ghetto is certainly an english person, whereas a syrian first generation immigrant who lives in a ghetto with 1000 other syrian first generation immigrants where shariah courts have been instituted does not have any strong cultural bond to you or i, and will alnost certainly have different needs and wants from the british political system. A nationalist is as opposed to 5000 english people immigrating to a racialized community in gambia as they are to multiculturalism in England.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by Warmij » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:13 pm

Are the Scottish National Party white supremacists because they're nationalists?

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Re: The Next US President

Post by The False Guwuh » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:25 pm

Of course not, theyre not even really nationalists if they want to be in the eu
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Re: The Next US President

Post by うさぎ » Wed Nov 16, 2016 8:36 pm

nationalism in the way you describe, then, and indeed the nation-state as a whole, really took hold as ideologies in nineteenth century europe which was also very invested in colonialism. there are also very clear ties between nationalism and racism -- look at nazi germany (sorry it's a bit of a 'done' metaphor), or colonial japan in korea. nationalism as you describe it is inextricably linked to colonialist white supremacy (in the case of west/rest of world relations) and has time and time again been a vehicle for racism.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by The False Guwuh » Wed Nov 16, 2016 11:18 pm

you are talking about ethnonationalism which is a very fringe ideology that is barely alive in 2016, despite what some of the more fearmongering news outlets will try to tell you. cultural nationalism is the same thing, but the definition of 'nation' is completely different, the ideal for a cultural nation is a country with good integration for immigrants and no mass immigration, rather than the genocide and mass deportation that has historically come from ethnonationalism. the idea is to have a strong cultural bond between all the people within the nation, regardless of their race.

nazi germany was certainly not a culturally nationalist state because they committed genocide against the jews, who were extremely well integrated in the preceding weimar period.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by Warmij » Thu Nov 17, 2016 12:51 am

Generally speaking, lumping together a ton of different ideologies under one banner is a very dangerous move as you're set to tarnish a large amount of people with the same brush that they are most likely not deserving. This doesn't just apply to the right Re: Nationalism but also to the left/right and broader ideologies too.

What I mean by applying that towards the left/right as well is that plenty of people who are 'on the left' do not necessarily agree with socialism/communism/etc, and in fact can be vigorously opposed to it. Likewise, plenty of people who are 'on the right' do not necessarily agree with fascism. Plenty of leftists argue that state control of institutions is a restrictive idea that does not bring around the desired changes leading to a more equal nation (equality being the "core cause" of the left), and plenty of right-wingers argue that fascism is fundamentally ideologically opposed to the "core cause" of the right, which is bringing about more freedom to citizens.

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Re: The Next US President

Post by barrybarryk » Thu Nov 17, 2016 8:28 pm

Bannon’s Breitbart News especially has come under fire for its rampant anti-Semitism
Do people not realise Breitbart is a Zionist propaganda site?

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Re: The Next US President

Post by Cruizer » Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:03 pm

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Warmij wrote:Probably the best video on the subject
I must admit I found that video quite interesting. I was kind of wrestling with the same ideas about how unhelpful it is to project the worst racist characterisations onto Trump supporters, which hinders any kind of debate. As that guy says voting for Trump doesn't make you a bad person, some people that voted fro trump defintely are bad people who feel trheatened by the idea of a society based on equality and civility, some are Bernie supporters punishing Hillary for not being liberal and prgressive enough (so voted gooseberry fool Trump) but other's aren't (which admittedly he a little hard to swallow what with all the increases in hate-crimes which maybe as a result of Trumps example and they did still vote for him despite all of Trumps racism, misogyny, xenophobia and general hate speech - but roughly half of the people that elected Trump also elected Obama [who has a middle name Hussein] so they can't be that racist). I saw a thing on TV, (I won't link it as I don't want it to get more views) read some Trump quotes to Trump supporters and asked them if they agreed - it turned out they was actually quotes from Hitler (which is a bit of a eton mess thing to do - I think Hitler was in charge for about 6 years before WW2, in that time - he would have been running the country and there would be quite a lot of boring administrative things he had to do - not every quote would have been "kill all the Jews") - that is as eton mess as it sounds there was no point to it (a good point to make would be a friendly warning about in times of hardship Right-wing fascist groups manage to hoover up moderate people) other than ha ha look at these stupid white trash.

The world isn't a university campus; I think Bernie said something along the lines of decent working class people from places like Ohio that had strong manufacturing industries that have been de-industrialised sold-off, and the resent people feel becuase all profits have been put into tax-havens, leaving normal people behind. I can see how Trump saying he would put large tariff's on Chinese imports so that they couldn't be too competitive would resonate with such people. (just like in this Country - I don't neccesarily have a problem with a lot of UKIP supporters, a lot of them are working class ex-labour supporters concerned about the effects on mass migration with wage undercutting or how public services [which affect their children] can cope with the change in infrastructure).

I agree one of the things most depressing things about Trumps victory was how little choice there was and the fact political discourse is so polarized and full of anger a property developer from New York can position himself as the man of the people. Politics is deeply populist, I can see now a career politician like Hillary (whose been subject to decades of hate from Liberals and Conservatives and manufactured scandal) didn't have much of a chance, I believe if Bernie was running against Trump, there's a very good chance Bernie would be President Elect right-now.

----------------------------------------------

Question - what did everyone think about all the protest and rioting after Trumps victory? - admittedly I'm not in America but it seemed pretty bad and in some cases we're talking peaceful protests here. If Hillary won and Trump supporters were rioting causing damage to public / private property like this - there would rightly be outrage and blame on Trump for all his "rigged" fearmongering and demands for Trump to publically reprimand his supporters? Perhaps Obama and Hillary should have done more to distance themselves from [what certainly seems to be] pretty bad riots.

---------------------------------------------

I do wonder if Trump will surprise us. It does seem he wants to do this for his legacy (which is basically ok - as so much all of us do is based on ego) rather than money. He's giving up business to do this and I was quite impressed with him refusing $400k salary (he took 25k which is the minimum he was allowed) - I like Bernie (he is an honest and good man, but socialism aside I think he would still "it would be nice to have $400k a year ) - but I don't think he would have declined the money- no one would expect him to or criticise him for not refusing the money, equally no one would have criticised Trump for accepting the money - yet he still declined - that's quite honourable.

Whether he'll be a good president or not (most likely not) - I think his reason are ego, legacy and wanting to be liked - he's 70 odd and doesn't need the money and I think his reason for presidency aren't self-interest in the way Hillary's are and are probably more honourable than a lot of leaders who went on to be good presidents - maybe he'll surprise us...........but much more likely he'll be like the President on Wall:E that says Earth is ruined and we have to abandon it and live in space.

-------------------------------

As this thread is winding down - I'll just say this was one of my fave threads to read so thank you to everyone that contributed, especially Row, Guwth, Hassy, Barry for making it such an interesting read.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by row101 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 4:27 pm

Cruizer wrote:I was kind of wrestling with the same ideas about how unhelpful it is to project the worst racist characterisations onto Trump supporters, which hinders any kind of debate.
Is it bad to call a racist a racist now? Go look at the comments on Fox News or Trump's Facebook page and see the kind of people who are voting for him. What helps Trump, especially in regards to the media, is making these views seem "normal", or making Trump seem "normal". THIS IS NOT NORMAL. Trump supporters love playing the victim card, saying they're being oppressed by the LIBERAL ELITES and the (((GLOBALISTS))), and they accuse others of political correctness when in reality they get triggered and offended when someone calls them out on their eton mess, like when Hillary called them deplorable.

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Note that I'm not using these to refer to all Trump supporters, but I think the demographic I'm describing, the alt-right, is what turned out in such larger numbers putting his popular vote above both Romney and Mccain. The rest is the reliable Republicans who turn out to vote every election, who I have less of a problem with even if they're clearly so blindly loyal to the Republican party.
The world isn't a university campus; I think Bernie said something along the lines of decent working class people from places like Ohio that had strong manufacturing industries that have been de-industrialised sold-off, and the resent people feel becuase all profits have been put into tax-havens, leaving normal people behind. I can see how Trump saying he would put large tariff's on Chinese imports so that they couldn't be too competitive would resonate with such people. (just like in this Country - I don't neccesarily have a problem with a lot of UKIP supporters, a lot of them are working class ex-labour supporters concerned about the effects on mass migration with wage undercutting or how public services [which affect their children] can cope with the change in infrastructure).
This is more or less correct. Working class America thought the guy who lives at the top of a building in Manhattan with his name on it was a man of the people, but it's also Clinton fault for not appealing to them like Bernie did. Bernie won several of the midwest states that lost Clinton the presidency.
Question - what did everyone think about all the protest and rioting after Trumps victory? - admittedly I'm not in America but it seemed pretty bad and in some cases we're talking peaceful protests here. If Hillary won and Trump supporters were rioting causing damage to public / private property like this - there would rightly be outrage and blame on Trump for all his "rigged" fearmongering and demands for Trump to publically reprimand his supporters? Perhaps Obama and Hillary should have done more to distance themselves from [what certainly seems to be] pretty bad riots.
Hillary conceded the morning after the election and said that everybody needed to accept Donald Trump as their next President. Same with Obama. Trump never said he would accept the results of the election, and I think his supporters would have been far worse had Hillary won. But there's nothing wrong with people sending a message to Donald Trump that he must listen to the concerns of ALL Americans, and that he needs to be President for EVERYONE, including liberals. Obama tried hard during his first few years to compromise with conservatives. Only a minority are rioting.
I do wonder if Trump will surprise us. It does seem he wants to do this for his legacy (which is basically ok - as so much all of us do is based on ego) rather than money. He's giving up business to do this and I was quite impressed with him refusing $400k salary (he took 25k which is the minimum he was allowed) - I like Bernie (he is an honest and good man, but socialism aside I think he would still "it would be nice to have $400k a year ) - but I don't think he would have declined the money- no one would expect him to or criticise him for not refusing the money, equally no one would have criticised Trump for accepting the money - yet he still declined - that's quite honourable.

Whether he'll be a good president or not (most likely not) - I think his reason are ego, legacy and wanting to be liked - he's 70 odd and doesn't need the money and I think his reason for presidency aren't self-interest in the way Hillary's are and are probably more honourable than a lot of leaders who went on to be good presidents - maybe he'll surprise us...........but much more likely he'll be like the President on Wall:E that says Earth is ruined and we have to abandon it and live in space.
Most Presidents have put all of their assets in a blind trust, but Trump has refused to do so. He has so far been the most openly corrupt and self-serving president in modern history.
He's backed the Dakota Access Pipeline, which threatens the water supply of the Standing Rock Tribe, despite having a stake in the company building the pipeline.
He had a phone call with the Taiwan President, when his organisation is considering building a hotel in Taiwan
He made a deal with Carrier, who were threatening to move all of their jobs to Mexico, where they get a tax break, and still move half of their jobs to mexico. Even Sarah Palin criticised this.
He's surrounding himself with the swamp he promised to drain.
As this thread is winding down - I'll just say this was one of my fave threads to read so thank you to everyone that contributed, especially Row, Guwth, Hassy, Barry for making it such an interesting read.
Me too.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by JenovaPX » Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:16 pm

"Is it bad to call a racist a racist now?"

This is exactly the problem and you're a caricature of it unfortunately. You believe your side is right, as you should, that's why it's the side you're on. It's easy to decry others but it's not helpful in any way, shape or form. A lot of his vocal supporters exhibit the worst traits people have to say about them, that's undoubtedly true, but what good is throwing names at them going to do? Why don't you actually try to have a discussion with someone and be productive? And part of that discussion has to involve you not doggedly believing your side is right and that the other side comprises of generalisations. eton mess can only improve when people stop being pigheaded and accept that their side might not be right, especially not for everyone.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by row101 » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:18 pm

JenovaPX wrote:"Is it bad to call a racist a racist now?"

This is exactly the problem and you're a caricature of it unfortunately. You believe your side is right, as you should, that's why it's the side you're on. It's easy to decry others but it's not helpful in any way, shape or form. A lot of his vocal supporters exhibit the worst traits people have to say about them, that's undoubtedly true, but what good is throwing names at them going to do? Why don't you actually try to have a discussion with someone and be productive? And part of that discussion has to involve you not doggedly believing your side is right and that the other side comprises of generalisations. eton mess can only improve when people stop being pigheaded and accept that their side might not be right, especially not for everyone.
I hate Hillary Clinton as much as anyone, although I thought Clinton was the better candidate of the two (but I would have voted Stein anyway), there are several areas in which I agree with Trump where I think Democrats need to change, issues like gun rights and trade (Trump has effectively torpedoed the TPP already).

So I'm not blindly opposed to Trump, but I will call his supporters out. I don't pretend that they're all deplorable, as I said a large portion are just normal Republicans who I respect. But I won't accept the normalisation of the alt-right. They are racist, they are sexist, they are anti-semitic. The KKK is holding a victory rally in Albany NC, but nobody cares any more because this is just another day in Trump's America. So whilst I have nothing but respect for ordinary conservatives I have very little respect for racists and I will call them out on it because those views need to be challenged. If nobody does, those views will just become even more mainstream, which is clearly already happening.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by JenovaPX » Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:40 pm

But what you're missing is that calling them racists isn't challenging them.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by row101 » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:07 am

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

*deep breath*

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Full document here that the Buzzfeed/CNN reports are based on, the report was provided by Sen. McCain to the FBI, which believes the document is authentic. The primary source is a former MI6 agent, and the story was broken by the guy who broke Watergate.

What we know:
  • Russia has an interest in getting one of their own in the WH.
  • Russia most likely has tapes of Donald Trump urinating on Russian prostitutes (room was bugged). (page 2)
  • Russia hacked the RNC as well as the DNC, however this information has not yet been leaked (confirmed by FBI).
  • The document also describes extensive communication between the Trump campaign and the Russian government (page 7).
  • Donald Trump has repeatedly defended Putin and criticised both NATO and broken with bipartisan decades-old American foreign policy, including defending Russia's invasion of Crimea.
  • Russia hacked the DNC and released the documents to Wikileaks in order to undermine Hillary Clinton (as previously concluded with high confidence by intel. agencies).
In conclusion: the Trump campaign is likely being blackmailed by the Russian government.

THE US CONSTITUTION, ARTICLE 3 SECTION 3:
Section 3.

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.
IF these allegations are true, Donald Trump's actions fall under giving the Russians aid and comfort, making him guilty of treason. To clarify: enemies do not just mean those we are at war with, but would likely include Russia based on the actions of both the US and Russian government.

18 U.S. Code § 2381:
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
I can no longer support the President-elect (before this report I tried to have a shred of optimism) -- no matter what he does domestically, his actions are treasonous and if justice still exists then it must be served.
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Re: The Next US President

Post by Rik » Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:22 pm

People on 4chan now claiming it's all come from them winding up a journalist lol
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