Warmij wrote:Probably the best video on the subject
I must admit I found that video quite interesting. I was kind of wrestling with the same ideas about how unhelpful it is to project the worst racist characterisations onto Trump supporters, which hinders any kind of debate. As that guy says voting for Trump doesn't make you a bad person, some people that voted fro trump defintely are bad people who feel trheatened by the idea of a society based on equality and civility, some are Bernie supporters punishing Hillary for not being liberal and prgressive enough (so voted gooseberry fool Trump) but other's aren't (which admittedly he a little hard to swallow what with all the increases in hate-crimes which maybe as a result of Trumps example and they did still vote for him despite all of Trumps racism, misogyny, xenophobia and general hate speech - but roughly half of the people that elected Trump also elected Obama [who has a middle name Hussein] so they can't be that racist). I saw a thing on TV, (I won't link it as I don't want it to get more views) read some Trump quotes to Trump supporters and asked them if they agreed - it turned out they was actually quotes from Hitler (which is a bit of a eton mess thing to do - I think Hitler was in charge for about 6 years before WW2, in that time - he would have been running the country and there would be quite a lot of boring administrative things he had to do - not every quote would have been "kill all the Jews") - that is as eton mess as it sounds there was no point to it (a good point to make would be a friendly warning about in times of hardship Right-wing fascist groups manage to hoover up moderate people) other than ha ha look at these stupid white trash.
The world isn't a university campus; I think Bernie said something along the lines of decent working class people from places like Ohio that had strong manufacturing industries that have been de-industrialised sold-off, and the resent people feel becuase all profits have been put into tax-havens, leaving normal people behind. I can see how Trump saying he would put large tariff's on Chinese imports so that they couldn't be too competitive would resonate with such people. (just like in this Country - I don't neccesarily have a problem with a lot of UKIP supporters, a lot of them are working class ex-labour supporters concerned about the effects on mass migration with wage undercutting or how public services [which affect their children] can cope with the change in infrastructure).
I agree one of the things most depressing things about Trumps victory was how little choice there was and the fact political discourse is so polarized and full of anger a property developer from New York can position himself as the man of the people. Politics is deeply populist, I can see now a career politician like Hillary (whose been subject to decades of hate from Liberals and Conservatives and manufactured scandal) didn't have much of a chance, I believe if Bernie was running against Trump, there's a very good chance Bernie would be President Elect right-now.
Question - what did everyone think about all the protest and rioting after Trumps victory? - admittedly I'm not in America but it seemed pretty bad and in some cases we're talking peaceful protests here. If Hillary won and Trump supporters were rioting causing damage to public / private property like this - there would rightly be outrage and blame on Trump for all his "rigged" fearmongering and demands for Trump to publically reprimand his supporters? Perhaps Obama and Hillary should have done more to distance themselves from [what certainly seems to be] pretty bad riots.
I do wonder if Trump will surprise us. It does seem he wants to do this for his legacy (which is basically ok - as so much all of us do is based on ego) rather than money. He's giving up business to do this and I was quite impressed with him refusing $400k salary (he took 25k which is the minimum he was allowed) - I like Bernie (he is an honest and good man, but socialism aside I think he would still "it would be nice to have $400k a year ) - but I don't think he would have declined the money- no one would expect him to or criticise him for not refusing the money, equally no one would have criticised Trump for accepting the money - yet he still declined - that's quite honourable.
Whether he'll be a good president or not (most likely not) - I think his reason are ego, legacy and wanting to be liked - he's 70 odd and doesn't need the money and I think his reason for presidency aren't self-interest in the way Hillary's are and are probably more honourable than a lot of leaders who went on to be good presidents - maybe he'll surprise us...........but much more likely he'll be like the President on Wall:E that says Earth is ruined and we have to abandon it and live in space.
As this thread is winding down - I'll just say this was one of my fave threads to read so thank you to everyone that contributed, especially Row, Guwth, Hassy, Barry for making it such an interesting read.