Doctor Who Discussion Thread

[LostNoob]

That episode was okay I guess?

I honestly found it a little boring at times and John Simms was kinda wasted.

I didn't like the way the Master was killed off either, that whole scene was a bit rushed, and i'd be very surprised if it's referenced again in future episodes, I bet the Master will come back with no explanation.

But for the most part, it was good, the Mondasian Cybermen are still creepy as gooseberry fool, I'm so glad that they brought them back, I'd love too see an episode with just that type of Cybermen as the main villain, like a throwback to the old 60's era Cybermen episodes.

The other thing I didn't like is the Doctor's moaning about having to regenerate, the 10th Doctor's "I don't want to go" really rubbed me the wrong way, and it just seems out of character for the 12th Doctor to resist regenerating, it did lead to one of my favourite Doctor Who scenes of all time though, I can't wait for the Christmas episode, let's just hope the 12th Doctor doesn't spend the entire thing moaning about having to regenerate.

I'm sad too see Capaldi go, even though he's been around for the same number of series as Tennant and Smith, it just feels like he's only just become the Doctor.

It's a shame he never got better scripts either, I felt that his run as the Doctor was the weakest era of the revived series with only a handful of standout episodes, hopefully he will do some of the Big Finish stuff.

[Sonicka]

Personally I thought this was nowhere on the level of Series 9's Finale... but it was better than Series 8.

Seeing the Master and Missy's interactions were all fun throughout (at once point I was waiting in hope for the Doctor to go tell the Master to go **** himself) Which would have been entirely possible - and something that was also on their minds at times haha!. But their betrayal - although obvious - was the right way to go with these characters. Moffat at least didn't attempt to change The Master in John Simm - he was visious right until the end to the point where he just doesn't want to become Missy - especially that he wouldn't even let her join The Doctors side as his friend - after all his incarnation was never interested in teaming up with The Doctor (hell, he didn't regenerate in The Last of The Timelords just to spite Doc 10), so at least this held up.

What is interesting (and perhaps heartbreaking) was Missy and how much of Capaldi's Doctor has rubbed off on her. I personally think this spark began in a timey-wimey way with this episode with his speech to them both. I think this obviously lingered enough with The Master on a subconscious level for him/her to begin the events of Series 8 after regeneration in attempting to Win The Doctors friendship in her own way (and with Cybermen to boot in Series 8 - so there's a lovely sense of a loop fulfilment here), but that's before Capaldi took matters into his own hands this Season with her.

What was a shame is that the Cybermen once again became cannon fodder to the story. Wasn't this supposed to be about the Mondasian's genesis? The incorporation and Journey Bill went through in that she is/was a Cyberman was very well handled - but other than this story beat suddenly every other series Cyberman turned up... why? Was a reason given? What did I miss? Or was this their evolution on the floors below? I don't understand. And how come The Doctor's Sonic Screwdriver can now blow them up... when did this get a Cyberman setting? (Although admittedly I did enjoy this sequence with him name checking their appearances.)

But hey.

At least we got to wave off Nardole... so he's just... living on the spaceship now... or Mondas? I don't know. I do wish we got MORE or him this series in general - like a backstory beyond a few sentences. He was just kinda there most of the time - and whilst not a bad thing I just wanted... well, more. Actually. What did happen to this spaceship in the end... was it saved? What happened?

Also Bill's ending. This did work at least, but it also was the same as Clara's departure - differences just being without a TARDIS and that she can have her body back and live if she wants... just because why not.

I will say though, the ending was superb. I wish I hadn't known beforehand... however the seeds of Doctor 1 turning up at christmas were spoilered months ago by David Bradley on accident - not that this didn't make it any more satisfying.

The other thing I didn't like is the Doctor's moaning about having to regenerate, the 10th Doctor's "I don't want to go" really rubbed me the wrong way, and it just seems out of character for the 12th Doctor to resist regenerating, it did lead to one of my favourite Doctor Who scenes of all time though, I can't wait for the Christmas episode, let's just hope the 12th Doctor doesn't spend the entire thing moaning about having to regenerate.

It's a shame he never got better scripts either, I felt that his run as the Doctor was the weakest era of the revived series with only a handful of standout episodes, hopefully he will do some of the Big Finish stuff.

See I interpreted this differently. Whilst admittedly I like the way the 10th Doctor's bowed out by not wanting to change (simply because 10 is vein, he likes BEING this Doctor - which is in character for him) - 12 was more or less fed up, he wanted to die there and then and was at peace with this. It wasn't about that he wants to stay in his current persona, but it was more that he isn't interested in having to keep repeating cycles of rediscovering himself. Lets not forget we had Series 8 which invested in him trying to decide if he was a good man or not, he sacrificed lives to prolong his own and others at times and was very much a Darker Doctor until the end of Series 8 when he came to his own conclusions that he simply has to do what he can to the best of his ability.

He would rather just continue as one man now than traverse the universe as many - which again I feel is in his character to say - he's not at peace with this as much as he was when he was 11, but then when 11 regenerated it was with the grace of belief that he was at his end before being granted new life - then delivered arguably one of his greatest speeches ever:

We all change, when you think about it. We are all different people all through our lives and that's okay, that's good you've got to keep moving so long as you remember all the people that you used to be. I will not forget one line of this, not one day, I swear. I will always remember when The Doctor was me...

This is not who 12 is. However, he needs to remember that change is ok - and it is important. Which I think is going to be the ultimate purpose of The upcoming Christmas Special. It's obviously going to be who's version of "It's a Wonderful Life" to some degree.

Lets just hope Capaldi's Doctor can take Bradley's Doctor to meet his granddaughter all grown up at christmas time - we had a seed planted in Episode 1 with her picture on his desk, and Capaldi has forever voiced about trying to get her in the show in a guest role - make it happen Moffat.

I think Peter Capaldi has been my favourite Doctor - just a shame that he didn't have this consistently good stories until this series!

Really? I'd say arguably this has been the Shows weakest and less interesting run of The Capaldi era. Don't get me wrong, It has a strong start with the individual episodes, but it then muddied itself with The 3-part Monk Trilogy which just nowhere near good as hyped past the initial first part - not to mention the reveal of Missy in the vault - which whilst made sense plot-wise wasn't really that enticing a reveal to keep a secret for 6 episodes. Series 10 never picked itself back up again until the finale in my eyes.

Series 8 and 9 has much stronger and most interesting stories. Series 8 was great because we were exploring a Darker Turn for the Doctor, and Series 9 made the wise choice to make almost every episode a 2-parter - something I think was always backwards step here. Moffat has been open about wanting to leave the show back in Series 9 - and I think this comes across quite vividly in this years run. Like Capaldi's Doctor he's had enough now. XD

It will be interesting to now where Chibnall takes this - I know most of his who episodes have been middling-good and he has Torchwood Series 1 & 2 under his belt, but then we also have Broadchurch... I hope he is able to incorporate more Drama into this show like the Golden Era again - will he make episodes more serialised? Will he bring The Master back once more... and if so as a goodie or a baddie? So much to anticipate.

[SupaWaluigi]

Aaaaah, it's so infuriating that there so many small good elements within the wishy- washy writing of this entire series!

The finale has lots of great elements, the Missy/Master dynamic and the Doctor's final moments I liked, but everything else is so thin in detail. And the idea of what is at stake in each individual episode has been so erratic.

It's a shame cuz I quite liked Peter Capaldi as the Doctor, he got the role really well. It's just throughout his course, the writing has made his iteration of the character so indecisive as to who he was meant to be. First he was angry, then he was a bit goofy-guitar man, and this final series he's almost been suicidal!

Here's hoping next series is better.

[Sonicka]

And the idea of what is at stake in each individual episode has been so erratic.

I agree about the stakes of each episode - as an audience we're supposed to care about the fate of not just the main characters but the people and world they inhibit within an episode, regardless of the scope. Despite the concept of an entire race of people living on a ship growing from crew of 10 into millions that eventually become Cybermen, this is never explored in any real detail beyond being a useful plot device to ground our characters to particular locations (specifically from the TARDIS) - there could have been so much more done with this.

I mean, it's great that stuff happens, and also whom stuff happens too, but if I don't care about why (or understand why) it happens then whats the point? We just learnt people are being experimented to be converted into Cybermen to evolve to survive... what, in the piss poor conditions of the gigantic spacecraft that has a countryside within it? Don't make me laugh. WHAT EVEN HAPPENED TO THE SPACESHIP! DID IT ESCAPE THE BLACK HOLE? Why were we even here if the Doctor couldn't save the spaceship. Will it escape from the depths eventually? Who knows. I don't. Something I did care about never got explained again.

I hate off-screen happenings - the one thing I hope will be sorted out next series.

It's a shame cuz I quite liked Peter Capaldi as the Doctor, he got the role really well. It's just throughout his course, the writing has made his iteration of the character so indecisive as to who he was meant to be. First he was angry, then he was a bit goofy-guitar man, and this final series he's almost been suicidal!

This is the whole point though to be fair - he didn't know who he was at first - A Good man? A Bad Man? Before concluding he's an Idiot with a Box - but he lost someone he can't remember and then Bill was converted into a Cyberman - so I'd say his story was pretty consistent with him now refusing to regenerate and just die than live on as another man. All the Doctor's we've had so far have changed in some way over their course on the show - the character evolves rather than sticking to typical Doctor tropes. personally I think Capaldi's Doctor has probably seen the most development of them all through Series 8-10, which is why he's my favourite Doctor next to Tennant's.

[SupaWaluigi]

I suppose so yes. There's always been that dynamic with all previous incarnations of the Doctor where they switch between the fun, bouncy personas and the serious, protect whatever species persona, but at the same time I feel there has to be a point within each episode, and then eventually the whole series arc, where his personality becomes a little more consistent.

Put it this way, I swear in almost every episode this series there was a point where the Doctor always jumped to the conclusion that he needs to sacrifice himself in order to diffuse the situation or save whoever rather than finding some other logical solution, to the point where, going back to the what's at stake point, that it eventually doesn't mean anything. Plus, this lessens the impact of his regeneration, and how he doesn't want to change.

[Edd]

- too many stop/start regenerations like omg

[imbusydoctorwho]

I thought the whole two Masters set up had so much potential in the previous episode and it was wasted imo, it felt like John Simm was just there for the sake of it. Bar that I really enjoyed the episode and I'm glad Bill got a happy ending,
she was so much better than Clara and Capaldi really was in his element.

Bar that silly Monk trilogy this series has been the best since Clara became the companion.

[Sonicka]

It's the Obligatory Annual Series and Finale Rating postathon!
I think it's time to do one of these again. I don't expect lengthy posts about the reasonings (although I expect lists will be fought over in the after-comments haha!) But I am just doing this in a short and quick judgemental instinct from all the other years we've done it today rather than spending hours on this post.

We'll include the specials as a separate series also within this - just because I like to rate these via my boxsets =P

So, for Clar(a)fication we have:

- The Tenth Doctor Specials - Planet of the Dead, Waters of Mars, The End of Time Parts 1 & 2

- The Eleventh Doctor Specials Name of the Doctor (for completionists sake) Night of the Doctor, Day of The Doctor, Time of The Doctor, An Adventure in Space and Time (if you must).

- Series 7 Parts A and B is also as one here (perhaps obviously?).


So for me in Terms of Series Rating from highest to lowest just from base instinct (and subject to change)...

1) Series 4
2) Series 9
3) Series 8
4) The Eleventh Doctor Specials
5) The Tenth Doctor Specials
6) Series 1
7) Series 3
8) Series 7
9) Series 6
10) Series 10
11) Series 2
12) Series 5

Interestingly I've put the weakest Seasons of each Doctor (IMO) at the bottom - so it's fair. No surprise that Series 5 remains at the very bottom for me. I know for some reason it's the season loved by a vast majority or the whodom, but I found it quite drab and boring (apart from The Eleventh Hour) - it cast Amy in a very unlikeable light (at the time anyway - and I KNOW that was the point), but also this is where Matt is getting his bearing as 11 and gives a better performance of his Doctor in later years. But really, this is where Moffat began his "Fairytale Run" of Doctor Who for 3 and a bit years. Pfft.


Here's my Series finales from highest to lowest (no, we won't include specials here - we'll save that for Christmas Time after Capaldi goes as it will get too convoluted). You each can decide if you feel if each Series ender was a 2 or 3 parter, which it kinda was in a few cases. And you can decide weather or not to include the mid-season finales as 1 entry or in combination. For me...

1) S9: Face the Raven / Heaven Sent / Hell Bent
2) S4: Turn Left / The Stolen Earth / Journey's End
3) S1: Bad Wolf / The Parting of the Ways
4) S3: Utopia / The Sound of Drums / Last of the Time Lords
5) S6a: A Good Man Goes to War
6) S10: World Enough and Time / The Doctor Falls
7) S8: Dark Water / Death in Heaven
8) S2: Army of Ghosts / Doomsday
9) S7a: The Angels Take Manhattan
10) S7b: The Name of the Doctor
11) S6b:The Wedding of River Song
12) S5: The Pandorica Opens / The Big Bang

Despite this... I don't really think any of these are terrible Finales by any means (apart from the one at the bottom). Series 9 and 4's finale are almost on even ground for me - watching Series 4 when I did was nothing short of a geek and nerdy thrill. But Heaven Sent in Series 9... is just something else. Coupled with one of the greatest performances from Capaldi AND THEN followed by some Geeky nerdy stuff - basically anything with Gallifrey immediately wins my attention - and this is the most fleshed we've ever seen of The Doctor's home world.

So anyway... list away folks!

[Rik]

I can't really remember the quality of each series prior to Smith well enough to do a complete list mainly since it's been so long since I've watched them, but if we're doing rankings I'd put my Doctor list as Capaldi>Tennant>Smith/Eccleston. Not to say Smith and Eccleston weren't good, it's just that Smith was when the writing started to go downhill (or at least the point I started to notice it going downhill) and Eccleston didn't get enough time to really shine. Capaldi has been exceptional throughout, even when lumped with some properly dire scripts he always manages to put in a good performance and Heaven Sent I think will always remain my favourite Doctor Who episode (shame Hell Bent managed to cock up the conclusion so much).

But Heaven Sent in Series 9... is just something else. Coupled with one of the greatest performances from Capaldi AND THEN followed by some Geeky nerdy stuff - basically anything with Gallifrey immediately wins my attention - and this is the most fleshed we've ever seen of The Doctor's home world.

I'd argue that everything shown of Gallifrey in Hell Bent was either fairly superficial or quickly gave way to Moffat dumbness and being overshadowed by Clara (as pretty much everything was in her runs because Moffat was obsessed with making sure we knew she was THE MOST IMPORTANTEST PERSON EVER).

[Kriken]

Funnily enough series 5 is one of my favourite series, possibly my most favourite. The only other one that springs to mind as being as good is series 1. Felt like these stories didn't go too over the top which I liked; others would say boring, I suppose. But I haven't followed all the series too closely.

Edit:

Recently watched some episodes of series 2 I hadn't seen before, including the series finale. Holy crap is it good. Possibly the best one I remember. It's epic and explosive without going too overboard, and the feels were on point too. I loved the Doctor-companion farewell and the build-up to it.

Also the trash-talk between the Daleks and the Cyberman was fantastic - much like the whole conflict between them.

[Sonicka]

Let get ready for some DRAMA!

http://www.doctorwhotv.co.uk/13th-docto ... -85870.htm

The 13th Doctor is to be announced on Sunday.

Interesting that they highlight it's after the MEN'S Tennis Cup... is this a secret ploy or subversion or deter our attention away from the announcement of a female doctor I wonder?

Probably not. But i'm prepared for it. Moffat has had his time to kick the Timelord gender agenda around during his years into Who Canon. So you just never know...

Recently watched some episodes of series 2 I hadn't seen before, including the series finale. Holy crap is it good. Possibly the best one I remember. It's epic and explosive without going too overboard, and the feels were on point too. I loved the Doctor-companion farewell and the build-up to it.

Also the trash-talk between the Daleks and the Cyberman was fantastic - much like the whole conflict between them.

See, although Series 2 is quite far down my ranks - its genuinely because I didn't quite think it matched a lot of Series 3 or 4 in term of real quality episodes for Tennent's Doctor... not that they were bad or anything - plus this is where Mickey had his turning point (Mickey probably became one the best characters the naturally changed and developed in the whole show really).

The one thing I did love was the romance dynamic setup between 10 and Rose. This was Doomed from the start - but by God do you buy into this... I wouldn't have done were it not for the Series 1 Setup... and that was a different Doctor entirely. But it made the end of series 2 one of the most heartbreaking finales on Television. I still get chills now... even after it was resolved later.

[Aren142]

"Identify yourselves."
"You will identify first."
"Daleks do not take orders."
"You have identified as Daleks."

Damn you, third person speech.

It's fun little exchanges like that which is why I preferred the Russel T Davies era. It didn't always take itself too seriously. Hopefully Chibnall brings at least some of this back. Moffatt's humorous moments have mostly been little one liners.

[shy guy 64]

well we find out the thirteenth doctor tomorrow

[GuitarHero]

well we find out the thirteenth doctor tomorrow

Yeah, would've preferred a surprise reveal in the episode itself at Christmas but that seems like it will never happen anymore. Oh well, looking forward to finding out who it is

[LostNoob]

I would love it if the BBC could keep the identity of the next Doctor quiet until Christmas, but series 11 will start filming in the Autumn, so it will get leaked.

It's funny, because there doesn't seem to be a clear idea of who the Doctor will be.
The media seem to have several candidates who they are convinced that will be the next Doctor.

I'm personally hoping for either Sacha Dhawan or Olivia Colman.
I'm hoping it's not Kris Marshall though, I'm sure he'll be okay, but it just seems like a lazy choice.

[Kriken]

For sure Sonicka. I suppose I made myself a bit unclear but I just meant the series 2 finale, not series 2 as a whole which I'm not that big a fan of. It has a handful of dire episodes, but also a couple of gems like that Devil two-parter, and the last two episodes.

Also, I feel like the announcement is happening after the men's Wimbledon final so that it gets a lot of exposure - and also perhaps to bump up viewing figures for the final; even if people just tune in to final moments of it in anticipation of the announcement, it'll count. Meanwhile women's tennis isn't nearly as popular.

As for the announcement itself, I'm looking forward to it. Been hearing Kris Marshall's name more than any other but I hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

I remember being surprised by Capaldi, because he was much more established as an actor than the last couple of picks. And because I was a fan of The Thick of It, I was already very familiar with him. I prefer it when it's a face I've never seen.

More than anything though I'm hoping that Chibnall will be a better leading writer. In short while I felt that under Moffat the series took a step in the right direction, it lost some of its charm and down-to-earthness that I liked about the previous era.

Edit:

Female doctor. Cool.

[LostNoob]

They picked the wrong Broadchurch actor!

I... had a bet on Olivia Colman...

But Jodie Whittaker was great in Broadchurch and Attack the Block, she's a good choice.

[Sonicka]

I think we all saw this coming! She's pretty phenomeninal in broadchurch - so I'm game for this!

Let's just hope the changeup helps to boost the shows viewership - otherwise...

[shy guy 64]

well i look forward ro seeing our first female doctor in action

[GuitarHero]

Not seen her in anything before, so not sure what to expect. Will be interesting how the show develops under Chibnall now

[OmegaPit]

It's refreshing, let's see how it goes.

[euan707]

What a cancerous, sexist fan base this show has.

[Rik]

Facebook is awash with the salty tears of angry white men and I'm loving it

[Aren142]

My stance is "Yeah, but I've never watched Broadchurch, so who the gooseberry fool is she?"

[imbusydoctorwho]

Not sure what to think atm, it'll be interesting to see how a female doctor pans out, she's a decent actress but I would've much prefer Olivia Colman instead but hey we can't judge on a 60 second trailer.

Will she swap the Sonic Screwdriver for a Sonic Lipstick? (Cause if memory serves me right that was a thing)